SB1 (2023) - Criminal Law - Wearing, Carrying, or Transporting Firearms - Restrictions (Gun Safety Act of 2023)

[esqappellate]

Time for another donation to MSI, and to email some MGA critters.

Also, it was nice to hear MSI (and esqappellate ) get a shoutout from Fuddbusters!

Fuddbusters: This Week In Gun

Matt is a great guy. And a very good lawyer. And thanks for the donation! Litigation isn't cheap, not to mention all the stuff we have to do to keep MSI, as an entity, alive and well with all the requirements we have to jump through as a 501c4 org. That takes accountants.

 

[Engine4]

Time for another donation to MSI, and to email some MGA critters.

Was just about to post this. I encourage others to do the same.

 

[lazarus]

We don't even know what the final requirements will be. Until the final JPC vote on Tuesday, we won't know the actual language of the bill that's going to the full Senate and on to the House. All we're seeing is working drafts that may or may not accurately represent the final product. Right now the working draft still has language requiring the Secretary (i.e. MSP Superintendent) to personally interview every applicant. I doubt even Waldo, let alone Smith, would impose that level of cost on MSP leadership.

Is it a cost? Or is it simply the ultimate gatekeeping?

 

[Bertfish]

You bet. Scroll down here. Our leverage is our promise to sue. And the MGA takes that threat seriously when we make it. When I make it, I back it up with legal analysis that their lawyers can examine in detail. Otherwise the threat is hallow. I promised it this year and they heard the message. We post all our testimony. And it has been exhausting. https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/legislation-tracker

I read it. Much of the same information you presented to the Judiciary Committee in that breifing you provided a few weeks back if I recall correctly.

One of these years I need to brush up on what all of the legal abbreviations mean

 

[Biggfoot44]

Both

 

[esqappellate]

I read it. Much of the same information you presented to the Judiciary Committee in that breifing you provided a few weeks back if I recall correctly.

One of these years I need to brush up on what all of the legal abbreviations mean

ask away. Happy to explain

 

[Stoveman]

My experience is that they take court decisions seriously. If we get a PI, I am certain they will consider it. The reason MSI goes to such efforts is that Maryland, for all its faults, is not New Jersey or New York or California. Maryland at least seems to care if a bill is blatantly illegal. Thank God.

Which ones? Seems like Bruen was pretty serious and they are still shitting all over it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super appreciative of the hard work that MSI puts in but if you're going to come back and tell us that the good news is that OC will be illegal and they've expanded the list of GFZs but it could be worse forgive me for not raising a celebratory glass.

Almost wishing that none of the hard work was efforted and just let them pass this turd as originally written. Still not seeing how helping to polish a turd and then still threatening to sue them on the chunks of corn is a wise strategy.

 

[Adolph Oliver Bush]

Which ones? Seems like Bruen was pretty serious and they are still shitting all over it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super appreciative of the hard work that MSI puts in but if you're going to come back and tell us that the good news is that OC will be illegal and they've expanded the list of GFZs but it could be worse forgive me for not raising a celebratory glass.

Almost wishing that none of the hard work was efforted and just let them pass this turd as originally written. Still not seeing how helping to polish a turd and then still threatening to sue them on the chunks of corn is a wise strategy.

Where is the "like" button?

I'm tired of MSI "compromising" and helping the MGA slip in just the tip.


I kept my MSI Membership so I'd have standing to complain.

Mark, I applaud your efforts, but try these words for once, instead of acknowledging that restrictions are lawful:

shall not he infringed.

not one ******* inch

 

[Georges2nd]

We don't even know what the final requirements will be. Until the final JPC vote on Tuesday, we won't know the actual language of the bill that's going to the full Senate and on to the House. All we're seeing is working drafts that may or may not accurately represent the final product. Right now the working draft still has language requiring the Secretary (i.e. MSP Superintendent) to personally interview every applicant. I doubt even Waldo, let alone Smith, would impose that level of cost on MSP leadership.

Also having 4 character reference. I don't think it will go well

 

[Metaterra]

Where is the "like" button?

I'm tired of MSI "compromising" and helping the MGA slip in just the tip.


I kept my MSI Membership so I'd have standing to complain.

Mark, I applaud your efforts, but try these words for once, instead of acknowledging that restrictions are lawful:

shall not he infringed.

not one ******* inch

Well I'd be clicking the dislike button. I really appreciate the hard work that MSI does in the real world of MD politics and the actual legal environment. I have no criticisms at all of the their approach. It's professional, focused, informed, and intense. That's why I'm member and will continue to contribute beyond that. We are lucky they exist. Thanks, esqappellate. Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Gryphon]

So, folks, a bit of heads up. Yeah, the latest version of SB 1 requires concealed carry. And yeah, that's likely to make it into the final bill. And just to be perfectly clear, MSI does NOT support that limitation. But here is the legal reality. All the plaintiffs in all the 2A carry cases to date, including Bruen, have told the courts that there is a right to carry outside the home, in some fashion, either concealed or open. For example, Florida has long banned open carry. See F.S.A. § 790.053. That requirement was sustained in Norman v. State, 215 So.3d 18 (2017), under the Second Amendment and the Florida State constitution counterpart. There is very little chance of a successful lawsuit challenging the ban on open carry, if the State allows concealed carry under an otherwise lawful, shall-issue statute. I totally get the desire to open carry. But, we got to put MSI's lawsuit resources into areas where we have a reasonable chance of prevailing. Suits are too expensive and and too resource intensive to do otherwise. When and if SB1 passes in its current state, our hands will be full challenging the "sensitive places" restrictions and any other BS requirements imposed by the State.

Thanks for the update, but I am curious what the Constitutional basis is for banning OC versus CC post-Bruen? I realize contemporary litigants have acquiesced to enforcing one or the other, but that’s mere context in pre-Bruen cases, and I fail see how that makes a new OC ban in MD presumptively Constitutional given Bruen. The open versus concealed discussion in Bruen is historically instructive, but it’s essentially dicta.

Seriously, what legitimate purpose is served by mandating a fundamental Constitutionally protected right can only be secretly exercised? To protect the sensibilities of hoplophobes? I don’t think there are many historical analogues for that.

If MSI already finds it necessary to enforce broad regained permit rights (GFZs and purported sensitive places) in the courts under the new Bruen standard, why would MSI likewise acquiesce on OC? Failing to challenge such a ban would seem to just concede that right.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Which ones? Seems like Bruen was pretty serious and they are still shitting all over it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm super appreciative of the hard work that MSI puts in but if you're going to come back and tell us that the good news is that OC will be illegal and they've expanded the list of GFZs but it could be worse forgive me for not raising a celebratory glass.

Almost wishing that none of the hard work was efforted and just let them pass this turd as originally written. Still not seeing how helping to polish a turd and then still threatening to sue them on the chunks of corn is a wise strategy.

At least you get to keep using some of your 2nd Amendment rights while you are waiting for the wheels of justice to slowly grind out the decision that ultimately puts a stake through the heart of the unconstitutional law that was passed which can take years.

For example if SB 1 as amended was passed you would have lost your existing carry permit while waiting for potentially years before a Supreme Court decision would be released, unless you chose to replace the permit under the new rules which would also take time and cost even more money. The case that resulted in the Bruen decision started in New York in 2018 and the decision of the Supreme Court was not released until 6/23/2022.

Sometimes a little food will keep you from starving while you are waiting for the crop to come in.

 

[44man]

For the record, there is no chance that the MSP will revoke existing permits. They will apply the new requirements, if any are enacted, on renewals and new applications. SB1 is not retroactive.

Thank you for that clarification

And thank you for all you do for all of us

 

[ironpony]

If I'm reading this correctly, we have to wait till it passes to see what's in it?
Sounds strangely familiar.

 

[smokey]

Is there a limit to how early you can renew your carry permit. For instance, if you are a couple months in to your first permit, can you just go ahead and renew it to get the 3 year renewal interval now?

 

[Bertfish]

If I'm reading this correctly, we have to wait till it passes to see what's in it?
Sounds strangely familiar.

Nah these actually get read before they pass unlike the US Congress that legitimately gets 24 hours for a 4000 page law

 

[light12pdr]

You bet. Scroll down here. Our leverage is our promise to sue. And the MGA takes that threat seriously when we make it. When I make it, I back it up with legal analysis that their lawyers can examine in detail. Otherwise the threat is hallow. I promised it this year and they heard the message. We post all our testimony. And it has been exhausting. https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/legislation-tracker

Donation sent. I appreciate you walking the walk and doing all this hard work for us.

Somewhere, Henry Heymering is grinning

 

[Allen65]

Nah these actually get read before they pass unlike the US Congress that legitimately gets 24 hours for a 4000 page law

Amendments can be added in 3rd Reader, just before passage. So it's quite possible to have last-minute changes before a final vote. Amendments can change single words, or they can replace a bill's text wholesale. The only real limit to last-minute changes is a bill has to pass both houses with identical language prior to the gavel dropping.

Most legiscritters don't care about 2A-related bills like we do, they may be more worried about budget bills, or road building in their districts, and don't have the time in the mad rush before Sine Die to read everything the Party tells them to vote for.

 

[Biggfoot44]

To protect the sensibilities of hoplophobes?

YES

 

[Biggfoot44]

Nah these actually get read before they pass unlike the US Congress that legitimately gets 24 hours for a 4000 page law

To clarify , it is able to be read by the MGA Members before voting .

But not necessarily in time for Public to know , or have opportunity to communicate to their Legiscritters .