SBR Confusion

[Ghost40]

I apologize since I'm sure this is covered here in depth, but I am confused about an SBR build.

I am considering building an SBR and as I understand overall length is still 29". A 10.5"(I think) barrel will get me there as long and the muzzle device is permanent (pinned?). I assume an adjustable stock complies as well. And from what I read it's considered a handgun in MD so HBAR doesn't apply.
And there is a special form from the ATF?

Did I miss anything?

Thanks!!

 

[Klunatic]

Brake does not need to be pinned. 10.2 should get you to 29" OAL. I assume you have a lower, you need to fill out the new form 1 and send in to ATF with $200.

 

[outrider58]

With 10.5'' bbl and standard collapsible stock, no need to pin/weld a muzzle device(assuming you are a Md. res).

 

[sailskidrive]

So if the muzzle device is pinned the barrel could be shorter than 10.5", correct? (Depending on the length of the muzzle device)

I'm thinking about doing this to a 9mm AR.

 

[outrider58]

So if the muzzle device is pinned the barrel could be shorter than 10.5", correct? (Depending on the length of the muzzle device)

I'm thinking about doing this to a 9mm AR.

When muzzle device is pinned and welded, it becomes part of the barrel so yes.

 

[RossL]

Slight tangential question. Have you started filling out the paperwork? On the website, the PDF has 3 copies of effectively the same forms but you can only fill out the first set (https://www.atf.gov/file/11281/download). Do we need to fill out the other 2 as well and also provide a 3 picture IDs? I asked the ATF but haven't had a response yet.

 

[Klunatic]

Unless they changed the process you need to submit 2 copies to the NFA branch with the $200 check. I would keep a third copy for you records. Just fill out one and print off 3 copies.

 

[RossL]

Unless they changed the process you need to submit 2 copies to the NFA branch with the $200 check. I would keep a third copy for you records. Just fill out one and print off 3 copies.

So I need to fill out the 2nd set by hand? The PDF doesn't let you edit the 2nd or 3rd set.

 

[Klunatic]

No, just fill out the 1st form and print 3 copies.

 

[RossL]

No, just fill out the 1st form and print 3 copies.

Makes no sense, but thanks!

 

[SneakySh0rty]

No, just fill out the 1st form and print 3 copies.

Makes no sense, but thanks!

The new Form 1s (revise date of May 2016) are fillable and contain all 3 copies in 1 pdf. All you need to do is fill out the "ATF Copy" and it will start to fill out all the other copies (CLEO and Return to Registrant form).

That is why you cant type into the other copies. Reason why CLEO has fields greyed out or less is because apparently they dont need the same amount of information.

I would refer to the NFA section for more info.

Edit: Just remember it is after July 13, so a Responsible persons questionnaire will need to be filled out, also fingerprint cards and pics.

 

[Elgan]

For those curious, you can easily make a 10.5" barrel reach the 29" OAL, likely without too much fussing on the rear end or pinning/welding the muzzle device. I have an 8.5" 300 BLK I'm planning on SBRing, and the muzzle device won't be permanently attached, however, I'll have to use a VLTOR A5 7-pos extension tube, a Magpul ACS-L stock, and an extended buttpad to get me right at 29". See Hawkeye's very helpful post here.

The EASIEST way to get SBR measurements, if you have a legal AR pistol lower (which allows ownership and possession of any short-barreled upper pre-Form 1 approval) and a spare full-size rifle AR lower (who doesn't these days?), I've found the easiest way to get your intended SBR measurements is to measure the length of the assembled short upper from the end of the threaded muzzle (birdcage or other muzzle device removed) to the end of the upper receiver. Then, you can mount the intended buffer/stock system for your SBR ON A FULL-SIZE RIFLE-LENGTH AR (so you're essentially just swapping stocks), and measure that length from the front of the area where you screw on the buffer tube (where the upper meets the lower along the bore axis) to the very end of a fully-extended buttstock. Add those two measurements up, and that's what your SBR OAL would be, should you attach the former upper with the latter lower/stock combo.

Again, you'd have to have a legal AR pistol lower (transferred as "other" on a 4473) in order to possess a short upper (unless, of course, you already have a stamp for an approved AR-format SBR), and a spare rifle-length AR lower (pre-10/13 or not, doesn't matter) to attach the stock to.

The reason I state having a pistol lower is because if you find out the OAL WON'T reach 29" for MD-legal SBR length with the longest stock system you can devise from "permanently attached" parts, that upper can only be used on a pistol-format lower. I've found that having a few stripped lowers around solves this issue as well. For $50 each, a couple spare Andersons is cheap insurance against all that "constructive possession/intent" nonsense.

 

[Pinecone]

OK, 41P is now the law.

So do not need to get CLEO sign off. But you do need to send a copy to the CLEO.

You DO need to submit photos and fingerprints, even if you have a trust (all trustees will need to submit photos and fingerprints).

 

[94hokie]

So if the muzzle device is pinned the barrel could be shorter than 10.5", correct? (Depending on the length of the muzzle device)

I'm thinking about doing this to a 9mm AR.

I found that for a 9mm AR, in order to get to 29'', i had to go to a slightly longer stock like the ACS-L with a 10.5'' barrel

 

[RossL]

I found that for a 9mm AR, in order to get to 29'', i had to go to a slightly longer stock like the ACS-L with a 10.5'' barrel

You sure about that? Here's what I have. The length extended is well over 29" https://danieldefense.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-mk18-factory-sbr-black.html

 

[94hokie]

You sure about that? Here's what I have. The length extended is well over 29" https://danieldefense.com/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-mk18-factory-sbr-black.html

my 10.5'' 9mm barrel is shorter by about an inch than my 5.56 and 300blk 10.5'' barrels. With those I can use pretty much any stock I want