School me on old 45-70 lever guns please

[smdub]

I was looking at the lever action porn thread (which I just noticed tonight I've never posted to) and I have a hankering again for an *OLD* lever. I really want a 45-70. I've got a modern big bore lever so looking for the other bookend. I think that means I'm looking for a 1886 Winchester?? Likely an antique. Something in pretty nice shape. FWIW, I WILL shoot it so not just a wall hanger. A 'once a year or so' type thing when friends/family gather.

Doing more research on these things the high end is very much like what I find with Lugers (another gun I've been so far afraid to buy) - an uneducated man can't tell any difference in the 3+ times spread in asking price. I don't mind paying a fair price but I don't want to be taken either. Anyone here able to point me in the right direction? Or even help me find one? Have one for sale?

Since these were all designed for black powder(?), is there off the shelf ammo avail that is safe to shoot in them? The reloading books are confusing. I'm setup to reload 45-70 but its likely not worth the hassle to work up something different for the small qty needed.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Do you literally mean Antique, or simply really old ?

Nickle Steel bbls were introduced shortly post 1900.

 

[smdub]

I don't know Looking at gunbroker I see ones built +/- the turn of the century. If they were all the same I'd probably lean antique as I don't have anything else that old but if one's built just after are stronger I could go that way too. Condition is more important than exact year.

 

[mgbill]

I was looking at the lever action porn thread (which I just noticed tonight I've never posted to) and I have a hankering again for an *OLD* lever. I really want a 45-70. I've got a modern big bore lever so looking for the other bookend. I think that means I'm looking for a 1886 Winchester?? Likely an antique. Something in pretty nice shape. FWIW, I WILL shoot it so not just a wall hanger. A 'once a year or so' type thing when friends/family gather.

Doing more research on these things the high end is very much like what I find with Lugers (another gun I've been so far afraid to buy) - an uneducated man can't tell any difference in the 3+ times spread in asking price. I don't mind paying a fair price but I don't want to be taken either. Anyone here able to point me in the right direction? Or even help me find one? Have one for sale?

Since these were all designed for black powder(?), is there off the shelf ammo avail that is safe to shoot in them? The reloading books are confusing. I'm setup to reload 45-70 but its likely not worth the hassle to work up something different for the small qty needed.

As far as available off-the-shelf .45-70 ammunition goes, there are commercial loads made for the "Cowboy Shooting" crowd that are suitable for use in older .45-70s. Black Hills is one such manufacturer, if I recall. They use smokeless powder loaded down to safe pressure levels for Trapdoor Springfields and lever actions such as what you're contemplating.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Most .45-70 factory ammo that is not from a boutique mfg marked as +P , is usually loaded very mildly, !! suitable for Trapdoor Springfields, which are far weaker than even early '86s . (Persuming the specific '86 has been checked over by knowledegable person, and given a thumbs up.

But pre-Nickle Steel guns should not use loads published as intended for " 1886 Win Only " , also known as " For Modern Marlin 1895 " .

 

[smdub]

Thank you all. Is there a good book/web site on the subject? My google-foo is usually pretty strong but between the multitude of hits on modern reproductions and TONS of links to short overviews that all repeat the same thing its hard to find good info. Though the more I poke around and learn, I'm starting to find better sources.

I have found this which roughly follows the same type of procedure that 7.62x54r.net uses to identify Mosin variants. Was helpful in understanding some of the variants that exist.
http://www.homestead-service.com/appraisals/winchester/1886/history-1886.htm

I see a couple of places referencing Cody verification letters. Seems like a good idea. Is this considered a fairly reliable method of data? (not sure how easy/often they are counterfeited) I've use a similar COA (Certificate of Authenticity) in other fields and they can be fake on occasion.
https://centerofthewest.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/

 

[Biggfoot44]

Cody has all the historical records from Winchester, so it would defacto be Factory Letter.

 

[smoothebore]

This site is listing some 1889, 90 lever guns for sale. www.ima-usa.com

 

[smdub]

Neat site but I'm specifically looking for a Winchester 1886 model in 45-70. They don't look to have any.

 

[smoothebore]

Okay, try www.leroymerz.com

I count eleven.

 

[smdub]

Ohhh, pretty Need to get off the little tablet and go peruse that site with a big computer monitor. I wasn't enamored w/ octagonal barrels at first but they are growing on me fast. I've always liked the look of a full length magazine tube too.

 

[starmetal]

45-70

I have a Browning 1886 Winchester Carbine in 45-70 and I am absolutely happy with it. I thought I wanted the long octagon barrel rifle model, but after hefting one I changed my mind. They are very heavy. My carbine is very accurate. It doesn't have any of the new safety gadget on it, which I'm glad. It's probably stronger then the old original being that it's made out of more modern steel. Only thing I don't care for is the steel crescent butt plate at it hurts with the hotter loads. If you look around on the gun trader sites you may find one.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Was that a slip of the finger ? M1876 was offered in .45-60 and .45-75 among others, but is not physically capable of handling ctgs the length of .45-70.

Perhaps a M1886, or M1878, and the finger slipped on one digit ?

 

[starmetal]

Was that a slip of the finger ? M1876 was offered in .45-60 and .45-75 among others, but is not physically capable of handling ctgs the length of .45-70.

Perhaps a M1886, or M1878, and the finger slipped on one digit ?

Yes it was a slip of the finger and I appreciate you for pointing that out. I will edit it.