Selling 20rd magazine Help

[Boats]

It's federally controlled property within the state of MD.

The FFL on base at the PX has to comply with all Maryland laws, including the handgun roster and the magazine capacity limit.

I was told that it was up to the base OIC, and that since it is federal property the pre-emption clause applies.

Can you cite a reference? (not being argumentative, I cannot cite a reference for what I've been told)

edit:. actually, according to article I, section 8, clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution state law does not apply to federal enclaves (such as military bases) provided that the enclave existed prior to the state law going into affect.

Since the 10rd magazine ban is from 2013, and Ft. Meade existed prior to that, the law does not apply unless the base OIC states otherwise.

The Federal Enclave Doctrine: A Potentially Powerful Defense to State Employment Laws

The U.S. Constitution provides that the federal government has exclusive legislative rights over certain federal territories – such as military bases, courthouses, and other official properties – if a state consents to the purchase of the territory. These territories are known as "federal...

www.littler.com

 

[Garet Jax]

I’ll do the work in PA lol


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So it's illegal to convert a 20 round mag to a 10 round mag in MD?

I didn't think that was the case.

Wouldn't the person be converting a pre-ban mag to a currently legal one?

To block them from 20 to 10?

I think it would only be illegal if you tried to do the reverse in MD. That could be construed as "manufacturing".

No law against "manufacturing" a 10 round mag.

Let me be more explicit in my statement that I think that would be illegal too. The heart of the matter is whether you're dealing with a 10 round mag or a 20 round mag. If you're legally dealing with a 10 round mag, then I think you could make a strong case, that what you're doing is perfectly legal. If however, the law sees you as dealing with a mag that has a capacity of greater than 10 rounds, then you have clearly broken the law.

If you were permanently changing the capacity from 20 to 10, then I think you would be ok, but as you know if you did that no one would buy it as a 20 round mag and you probably wouldn't be able to sell it at all. In your heart, you know you're selling a 20 round mag and just doing what you can to get around the silly law. This is a grey area I am not willing to risk my freedoms over.

 

[Garet Jax]

Yep, it usually needs to be spelled out here.
Okay, just simply sell it to someone out of state, quietly pack it up, take it to the good old US Post office and send it to them. And then resist the urge to post about it.
No fanfare.
Win.
The end.

Do you think that if you don't mention it, USPS inspectors pass through there with dogs, especially trained to sniff out empty, normal capacity magazines? Can you see them evacuating the post office, cordoning it off and sending in the robot package tearer opener?

Damn serfs... Waaay too programmed to comply...

While you could almost certainly do this and get away with it, you would have clearly broken the law at least twice:

1) Offering for sale
2) Transfer at the post office

If it makes you feel better to call me a serf, then please have at it. I am the sole provider for my family and my freedom is way more important to me than "sticking it to the man" over some stance than is clearly illegal and doesn't gain you anything except internet bravado.

 

[Occam]

I’ll do the work in PA lol

The MagDonald's parking lot in Gettysburg is well known for this activity, as long as you buy some fries and a coke while you're there.

 

[Bullfrog]

I was told that it was up to the base OIC, and that since it is federal property the pre-emption clause applies.

Can you cite a reference? (not being argumentative, I cannot cite a reference for what I've been told)

edit:. actually, according to article I, section 8, clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution state law does not apply to federal enclaves (such as military bases) provided that the enclave existed prior to the state law going into affect.

Since the 10rd magazine ban is from 2013, and Ft. Meade existed prior to that, the law does not apply unless the base OIC states otherwise.

The Federal Enclave Doctrine: A Potentially Powerful Defense to State Employment Laws

The U.S. Constitution provides that the federal government has exclusive legislative rights over certain federal territories – such as military bases, courthouses, and other official properties – if a state consents to the purchase of the territory. These territories are known as "federal...

www.littler.com

No, I can't. I'm only making statements based on what I've observed.

With conflicting jurisdictions I suspect you would need not just a lawyer, but someone experienced in a particular field of law to figure it out.

I can only add that I saw many examples where base regulations had to follow the law of the state they were located in. In 20+ years I can't recall any example where state law did not apply on base.

When I was stationed in California in the 80's, servicemembers under 18 could not drink or purchase alcohol on base, due to state law requiring people to be 21 to consume alcohol. When I transferred to Texas where the law was 18, 18 and up could drink on base.

When I went back to California for temporary duty much later, I had to re-register my MD vehicle in CA when I was there over a certain length of time, due to state law. This was even though the MD registration was good for another 6 months after I would be leaving to return to MD.

 

[coinboy]

Let me be more explicit in my statement that I think that would be illegal too. The heart of the matter is whether you're dealing with a 10 round mag or a 20 round mag. If you're legally dealing with a 10 round mag, then I think you could make a strong case, that what you're doing is perfectly legal. If however, the law sees you as dealing with a mag that has a capacity of greater than 10 rounds, then you have clearly broken the law.

If you were permanently changing the capacity from 20 to 10, then I think you would be ok, but as you know if you did that no one would buy it as a 20 round mag and you probably wouldn't be able to sell it at all. In your heart, you know you're selling a 20 round mag and just doing what you can to get around the silly law. This is a grey area I am not willing to risk my freedoms over.

Almost all dealers in Maryland permanently alter magazines to lower the capacity for sale with pistols and rifles in Maryland. So I do not think you are correct. They do this because some guns would be inherently banned because there are no ten round mags available commercially.

There is also not an exception for dealers within the law. So if they are downgrading mags over ten to legally sell them, I think an individual could also do it but I also am not a lawyer.

 

[ShafTed]

IIRC, the OP could sell them to an FFL in MD, who would then have to sell them out of state or mutilate them to sell in MD.

 

[MAANavy]

No, I can't. I'm only making statements based on what I've observed.

With conflicting jurisdictions I suspect you would need not just a lawyer, but someone experienced in a particular field of law to figure it out.

I can only add that I saw many examples where base regulations had to follow the law of the state they were located in. In 20+ years I can't recall any example where state law did not apply on base.

When I was stationed in California in the 80's, servicemembers under 18 could not drink or purchase alcohol on base, due to state law requiring people to be 21 to consume alcohol. When I transferred to Texas where the law was 18, 18 and up could drink on base.

When I went back to California for temporary duty much later, I had to re-register my MD vehicle in CA when I was there over a certain length of time, due to state law. This was even though the MD registration was good for another 6 months after I would be leaving to return to MD.

There is certain jurisdictions where state law is not concurrent, such as FedEx(federal exclusive) such as piers where ships are moored. As well as onboard the Naval Vessel, a Captain of a ship can actually deny giving over a Sailor to local LE, being that they preside over said Sailor. Only NCIS could take it up with that Capt.


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[jr88]

Wow, this is the second thread on standard size mags from new members today. Seems to happen every year around time to testify.

 

[outrider58]

Wow, this is the second thread on standard size mags from new members today. Seems to happen every year around time to testify.

New guy. Seems legit...

Hello from Severn

Hello all, I am active duty Military that got to MD about a year ago from VA. I’m originally from PA, lived in WA and FL as well so getting used to new gun laws in every state has been interesting and sometimes a let down lol. But either way, I’m happy to be in a shared interest group! Finding...

www.mdshooters.com

 

[coinboy]

IIRC, the OP could sell them to an FFL in MD, who would then have to sell them out of state or mutilate them to sell in MD.

I still question if that is legal.

I think it is not.

The law says that one can not sell or offer to sell a magazine over ten rounds in the state. I do not see an exception for an FFL.

I've had FFL's tell me it's legal but I'm skeptical.

 

[ToolAA]

We live in modern times, where identities are not defined by how you came into this world. I think those M14 mags could easily “Identify” as 7-Round .458 SOCOM mags and even most MD legislators know that 7 is less than 10 and men can get pregnant.


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[MD Shooter Envy]

I still question if that is legal.

I think it is not.

The law says that one can not sell or offer to sell a magazine over ten rounds in the state. I do not see an exception for an FFL.

I've had FFL's tell me it's legal but I'm skeptical.

Many Maryland FFL's sell 10+ magazines on their web stores to out of state residents. One on the shore in Kennedyville is one example. They also sell many Maryland banned rifles on their webstore but only to out of state buyers. The Maryland statute says a "person". I don't think an FFL is considered a person under the statute, but IANAL.

 

[jr88]

New guy. Seems legit...

Hello from Severn

Hello all, I am active duty Military that got to MD about a year ago from VA. I’m originally from PA, lived in WA and FL as well so getting used to new gun laws in every state has been interesting and sometimes a let down lol. But either way, I’m happy to be in a shared interest group! Finding...

www.mdshooters.com

Yes, I guess. I would hate to see a troll impersonate a Veteran.

 

[MAANavy]

Yes, I guess. I would hate to see a troll impersonate a Veteran.

At least i use a real picture..


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[rbird7282]

True…hey so you want to buy some mags? Hah jk. Maybe I’ll have to put blockers to make them 10 rnds


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So why are you getting rid of them? You may keep all of the 20 round (or any other capacity) mags you want in Maryland, you just can't buy or sell them in MD. Possession is perfectly legal.

 

[MAANavy]

Just didn’t feel a need to have 30+ mags for M14..don’t use it that much and rather invest the $ into upgrading my G43. But i can wait another few years to move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[mention]rbird7282 [/mention]

 

[Threeband]

(actually the ten round magazines are more convenient for range use.)

 

[rbird7282]

Just didn’t feel a need to have 30+ mags for M14..don’t use it that much and rather invest the $ into upgrading my G43. But i can wait another few years to move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[mention]rbird7282 [/mention]

Got it. Makes sense.

 

[Bullfrog]

Just didn’t feel a need to have 30+ mags for M14..don’t use it that much and rather invest the $ into upgrading my G43. But i can wait another few years to move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[mention]rbird7282 [/mention]

Visit the next Gettysburg or York, PA gun show with a backpack full and a sign on it.

Wouldn't be worth it for one or two but if you want to sell that many it would be.