Spyderco - Delica vs. Endura vs. Tenacious

[Storm40]

So, here's a question - I'm looking at either a Tenacious, Delica or Endura. I plan to carry this at work for all sorts of things - cutting open boxes, slicing fiber cables (computer stuff - they have to be cut when we dispose of them, don't ask), etc. So, a work knife that's going to get used... however, it would also be nice if it were to function outside of work as a self-defense knife, too. It has to be big enough to cover both eventualities while being small enough not to attract a ton of notice at work or running afoul of the various authorities in Maryland.

This is my first knife purchase of this type, so I haven't any real experience to draw on. I *think* I want a combo edge, since I think the serrated portion of the blade would be better for slicing fiber. I guess I'm afraid of going too small or too large, but I'm not sure what "too small" means given my intended usage or what "too large" is for the purposes of not making the folks at work think I'm toting a machete around. Any advice is welcome.

 

[alucard0822]

What knife suits you is largely based on opinion, there are certain advantages to certain features for a given use, but for the most part a decent folder is versatile enough to perform a range of tasks. On folders I personally don't like combo edges, full serrated(the spyderedge design is one of the best), or plain edge. The serrated portion of a combo edge is too small to really help saw or slice through material, it just basically starts a jagged tear for the plain edge to cut. A combo edge also misses out of the power and control you get push cutting or shearing at the base of the edge. Both types of edges have their benefits, but when put together they lose many of them, unless you have enough blade to get at least a couple inches of each. For defense, there is a lot more that could be considered, primarily techniques and training. The design needs more grip and traction than most EDC or utility knives have, it needs to have a very secure grip both forward and reverse to keep your hand from sliding, or from dropping the blade, this can make it bulkier than needed, and lacking some versatility. In judging size, the Overall length and weight can tell you more than simply the blade length. At the small end of a primary utility EDC IMO would be 7.5" OAL and about 3oz, enough handle for a good grip with all fingers, enough blade for most tasks, and enough bulk to feel solid. A 6oz knife with 9" OAL will be about as large as most can comfortably carry, and more than enough blade for most uses with a full comfortable grip. The thickness and shape also matter quite a bit, my 9"OAL Manix2 XL is comfortable to carry, and fits in the watch pocket of a pair of jeans, where my Benchmade Adamas is actually a hair shorter, OAL but far thicker and heavier, it's bulky in a front pocket, about as big as I ever would carry

Specifically those 3 are quite a bit different, the Delica and Endura share a similar FRN(fiber reinforced nylon) handle and backlocks. They are older designs with the 3 3/4" Endura being a LOT larger than the 2 7/8" Delica. They are comfortable, well made, and VG10 is a decent all around steel. The Tenacious is sized in between them, but because the entire edge is sharpened, it has the same size cutting edge as the larger Endura. It is also a liner-lock, easier to work with 1 hand, and while the G10 over steel liner construction is heavier than FRN(liners and screws on the new Enduras), it is a bit more ridgid, either is plenty strong, the 8CR13MoV steel isn't as good as VG10, it takes a good edge, but wears a bit faster, isn't as tough and is more prone to chip and rust. The best feature of the Tenacious is that it's cost makes it practically disposable, yet tough and ergonomic. The full flat grind slices well, and in full serrated form it makes a great beater work knife. The only real downside is the liner lock, although well built, it can be disengage inadvertently, and when pushing it over and closing, that nice full edge is right in line with your thumb, you have to push it just off of the lock, then move your thumb and close it, but even still it is easy to just flip it closed on your thumb in a hurry.

For cutting boxes and cable, you could make a strong case for serrated, it is less prone to damage, and cuts better, in that case You should look at the Salt series in H1 steel, it is a special type of steel that isn't heat treated like most others, it work hardens, and gets VERY hard when serrations are ground into it(don't bother with the plain edge versions), outperforming a lot of more expensive knives and steels, while being practically rustproof yet it's similar in price/function to the FRN Endura and Delica. The Manix2 series is one of my personal favorites, American made, very secure grip, very strong and secure lock, wide, but flat, and in S30V they are a step up from VG10. It is a rare example of a knife with a deep secure grip good for defense, yet has a forward choil and good texturing for detail work and EDC uses, available in 3.4" and 3.8" XL version. The Lightweight version is now available in exotic S110V supersteel, it holds an edge longer than just about anything, and takes a sharp aggressive edge, it can cut cardboard or softer materials all day without losing it's edge. Spyderco really doesn't make any bad knives, and they offer a good value in each model, but you definitely get what you pay for.

 

[Storm40]

knowing nothing, i was afraid a full serrated edge might be less suited to cutting various tapes than a straight edge. Thus the desire for the combo blade.

That's a lot to think on. I see the salt series is roughly the same price as the others. I guess I have a little more research to do

thanks a ton for the advice!

 

[alucard0822]

knowing nothing, i was afraid a full serrated edge might be less suited to cutting various tapes than a straight edge. Thus the desire for the combo blade.

That's a lot to think on. I see the salt series is roughly the same price as the others. I guess I have a little more research to do

thanks a ton for the advice!

The idea of serrations is to increase the actual length of the edge, protect the majority of it from damage with the peaks, and to keep changing the angle of the edge to the material. Spyderco has fairly large serrations, which is good, they help guide material in the valleys for a clean push cut(push blade against material so one spot of the edge does the cutting) without sliding down the edge, and really speed up slicing. By push cutting a serrated edge can cut every bit as clean as a plain edge, but the material is guided to that spot of the blade, works great for the plastic packaging everything comes in, or zip ties. Hard material sliding down the edge is probably the main source of plain edge blades dulling, and serrated blades pretty much stop it. The design uses the 2 small serrations next to each other to gently initiate the cut as they are pulled across the material, then the deep 3rd serration slices through like a guy hook, or shears harder material, with really tough stuff the peaks saw through while protecting the edge in the valleys. This is where the really hard edge of the Salt's H1 shines, the hardness makes the serrations peirce and shear well, and saw without damage, it does have ordinary wear resistance though, and that is the reason the plain edge(less factory grinding leaves a softer edge compared to serrated) with material sliding along it as it is sliced will wear and dull much faster than a serrated edge piercing and shearing while the majority of the edge is protected from wear by the peaks.

Supposedly combo edges originally came about as a "ripper edge", the small section of serrations only initiate the cut, then the plain edge slices the rest of the way clean, much like a spyderedge sliding the 2 small serrations to start a cut, then finish in the deep 3rd serration. They were somewhat specialty knives for rope, where it could be tough for a dulled plain edge to start the cut, but a serrated edge could cause it to fray. For just about every other purpose a sharp plain edge will outperform a combo edge, and with hard, tough or edge damaging materials a serrated edge will outperform either. When I turned wrenches as a mechanic, I had a serrated spyderco to use for just about everything, then a box cutter where I could just replace the blade if I had a lot of cardboard to break down, or recalled tires to slash, a plain edge(even combo) would just dull to quickly to use at work, but soon as I was off, I put the serrated knife away in my toolbox, and took my plain edge folder with me. Despite owning and trying a few combo-edges, I always go back to full plain or full serrated, carrying both if need be, it's really the only way to have the right blade for the job. The general consensus of most blade nerds is combo-edges are the minivan of the knife world, trying to do the job of a car and truck, arguably failing at both, but some people love them all the same.

 

[Storm40]

This is as difficult as deciding between 9mm and 45! *ducks and covers*

I do appreciate the advice. It seems serrated would fit most of my needs, but I'm still undecided. if I go serrated, I'm definitely going with the Salt Pacific series, though.

Ever try to strip cat5 with a serrated blade?

 

[smokey]

Correct tool for the job comes to mind. It sounds like you've got a good amount of different jobs. Ever think of going the multitool route? Even something like a Skeletool cx or micra may fit the bill for what you need. The OHT and MUT line are also great options of you want easy access to a knife....with the charge TTi being one of my favorite multitools in their lineup. They'd all give you better options for stripping/cutting cables than a knife, which would just get chipped and rolled when cutting cables(unless it was something like cpm m4). A multitool also gives you the ability to carry a blade into pretty much anywhere without getting the negative attention you'd get from just carrying a straight up knife.

For defense, it won't be ideal, but for work it will give you a lot more capability. If you want a defensive blade, you'll be looking for something that is fast and easy to deploy and something that preferrably has a training-model to use for practice. Without hands-on training with a sparring partner, it's not very realistic that you'll be able to properly deploy a blade in the middle of a fight.

If you absolutely want to stick to the knives you mentioned, the endura and delica both come in trainer models.

 

[Storm40]

I did spend some time thinking about the uses I'd put a knife to.

1) cutting packing tape to open boxes, to a lesser extent - electrical tape, duct tape and similar (plain edge is probably better here)
2) cutting plastic straps from around boxes (for which I think a combo edge might shine)
3) slicing a fiber cable in two or three pieces (another possible combo edge use)
4) occasional cardboard cutting
5) occasional stripping of the sheath of a cat 5 (but not cutting the copper wires)

I kinda wanna go the knife route because it's something useful at work and legal to carry in MD in almost all cases. The multitool makes sense, but I'd like to go knife.

Edit: I will also be cutting twine and plastic-type lines we use for running cables occasionally. None of this happens all that frequently, but it does happen.

 

[smokey]

get this...
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/BM...Black-G10-Handles-Safety-Cutter-Glass-Breaker

For cutting zipties and cord, it's hard to beat a hook. I use the hook-cutter on my MUT for pretty much most ziptie things I come across. They're also great for unzipping those plastic blister-packs just about everything is sold in these days. You can also use it for seatbelts in case of an emergency.

This particular knife also has a glass breaker for emergencies and a pretty great blade design for slicing. The blade is n6800, so while it's not the hardest, it's about corrosion-proof and has decent edge retention. The axis-lock is also one of my favorite lock designs for ease of use and strength. the handles are grippy and not really that wide, making it easy to carry. The pocket clip carries low enough to hide the knife, but not too low where it would be difficult to get out in a hurry.

this may be the ticket for you if you're not going the multi-tool route.

 

[Storm40]

good golly, that's like 2.5 times the price of the ones i was looking at. It's a really nice knife but way outside my price range right now - not that I don't appreciate the advice, because I really do!

 

[smokey]

same concept, cheaper version...
http://www.amazon.com/Buck-753-Redpoint-Rescue-Knife/dp/B007ZXYT2A

 

[alucard0822]

I did spend some time thinking about the uses I'd put a knife to.

1) cutting packing tape to open boxes, to a lesser extent - electrical tape, duct tape and similar (plain edge is probably better here)
2) cutting plastic straps from around boxes (for which I think a combo edge might shine)
3) slicing a fiber cable in two or three pieces (another possible combo edge use)
4) occasional cardboard cutting
5) occasional stripping of the sheath of a cat 5 (but not cutting the copper wires)

I kinda wanna go the knife route because it's something useful at work and legal to carry in MD in almost all cases. The multitool makes sense, but I'd like to go knife.

Edit: I will also be cutting twine and plastic-type lines we use for running cables occasionally. None of this happens all that frequently, but it does happen.

A serrated blade will do it all well, as would a sharp plain edge. Good steel is hard enough to shear through hard materials, even softer steel, copper wires, especially thin network cables won't affect it. The issue comes with a plain edge, where the cable is softer than the steel, it is still tough, and sliding along the edge to cut, it rolls over the microscopically thin edge, but shearing straight across, the harder steel just goes right through. A serrated edge prevents this, and the valleys in the blade can act like sharpened hooks to some degree to hold and shear cable, the blade can be just as sharp as a plain edge, so it can still strip jackets and slice tape too. A full serrated edge shines with the ability to saw though tough materials, especially with the belly portion of the blade (rounded portion between the center and tip), this is probably the greatest deficiency of a combo edge. It does slice clean being the tape will get pulled into a valley and cut instead of getting sawed with the edge. For scoring or cutting tape on a box, you are only using about 1/4" of the tip, and most serrated blades don't start serrations till about 1/2" from the tip.

Hooks can be great, they basically shear with 0 slicing like the deep valleys in a serrated blade, so they last a long time without dulling, and without a blade exposed outside of the hook, they can be much safer when cutting, but they practically require a separate larger blade for other tasks. The main thing a plain edge will excel at is clean slicing thick, but soft materials, or when a clean cut is needed, pushing the knife in deep and cutting with the innermost portion of the edge gives the most power and control with cardboard or other bulky materials, right where the serrated portion of a combo edge would be. Spyderco's plain edges also have the availability of a full flat ground blade, it is a smooth narrow wedge from spine to edge, and makes for a fantastic slicer, very little resistance through cardboard, or most materials compared to the more abrupt shoulders on a sabre ground blade where only about 1/2 of the width of the blade is ground. Cardboard and bulky materials is murder on a good edge, it wears the edge down, and even hard tough steels can wear down with a lot of cutting, this is wear high wear resistance is important although if you have a LOT of cardboard a box cutter with disposable blades trumps any supersteel IMO.

 

[joppaj]

Anywhere you're thinking you might want the combo edge, a full serrated is probably better. I personally REALLY like the Spyderco Rescue, but the Salt mentioned above is another fantastic choice. At work (police Sgt), I carry a fully serrated Endura. At home I swap it out for a Rescue.

 

[Storm40]

My loving wife ended the debate for me buy getting me the Endura lightweight, black w/combo edge.

I'll let you know how I like it after a couple weeks of using it!

thanks for all the help and advice!