Status of HBAR ban (HB0612)?

[PowPow]

To that, Veruca Frosh says, "But Daddy, I want the HBARs and I want them now!"

 

[calicojack]

Here is my take on this. It will be back next year in same form but their plan will be to amend it, ban all HBARs but not confiscate any HBARs before 2020. I know this state is run by Marxists and a RINO governor, but attempting to take back all rifles before 2020 is a step to far for them right now. In a few more years that will be another story.

Curious - why do you think 2020 will be the green light to grab?

 

[Joe Marino]

I just think another year of anti-gun propaganda will do it for them.

 

[teratos]

I just think another year of anti-gun propaganda will do it for them.

Another year of court decisions, too.

 

[calicojack]

Another year of court decisions, too.

Which might actually make it more difficult for the antis depending on outcome.

 

[teratos]

Which might actually make it more difficult for the antis depending on outcome.

The courts are going more in our favor. The recent CA decision on magazines even mentioned AR-15s. The Heller “common use test” is our friend.

 

[1841DNG]

The courts are going more in our favor. The recent CA decision on magazines even mentioned AR-15s. The Heller “common use test” is our friend.

I have no legal training but I had mentioned before I don't see how the best selling rifle ever and of the last two decades is not in common use. Ubiquitous in a lot of competitive shooting formats. Popular for hunting, sport, self defense, invasive hog extermination, etc. If they want to take semi-auto rifles they are from 1885ish off the top of my head.

 

[teratos]

I have no legal training but I had mentioned before I don't see how the best selling rifle ever and of the last two decades is not in common use. Ubiquitous in a lot of competitive shooting formats. Popular for hunting, sport, self defense, invasive hog extermination, etc. If they want to take semi-auto rifles they are from 1885ish off the top of my head.

If you haven’t read the CA opinion on magazines, it goes into all of this very nicely.

https://d3uwh8jpzww49g.cloudfront.n...2019-03-29-order-granting-plaintiffs_-msj.pdf

 

[esqappellate]

If you haven’t read the CA opinion on magazines, it goes into all of this very nicely.

https://d3uwh8jpzww49g.cloudfront.n...2019-03-29-order-granting-plaintiffs_-msj.pdf

Don't get your hopes up. That is one district court decision. One. And that is not binding precedent, not even in the same court. And you can be sure the State will appeal it to the Ninth Circuit court of appeals. Yeah, that one, which goes en banc on every 2A case that they don't like. There is much more to do.

 

[teratos]

Don't get your hopes up. That is one district court decision. One. And that is not binding precedent, not even in the same court. And you can be sure the State will appeal it to the Ninth Circuit court of appeals. Yeah, that one, which goes en banc on every 2A case that they don't like. There is much more to do.

I know. The opinion is excellent though. It makes “our” arguments quite nicely. Excellent talking points to refute the antis.

 

[fabsroman]

Don't get your hopes up. That is one district court decision. One. And that is not binding precedent, not even in the same court. And you can be sure the State will appeal it to the Ninth Circuit court of appeals. Yeah, that one, which goes en banc on every 2A case that they don't like. There is much more to do.

Hey, we have to take the glimmers of hope that come our way. A win in California on mags and a 1st Amendment win on a Motion to Dismiss.

I agree with you though about the case in California. Going to be a long road before that is over. Hope it ends up being as long as possible, reaches SCOTUS, and SCOTUS confirms what the US District Court for the Southern District of California says. Should the 9th Circuit uphold the District Court, it will be a miracle, but even then the holding would only be applicable to California, Alaska, Arizona, and Hawaii. Maryland is a long ways away from them. So, it is either all the way up to SCOTUS with SCOTUS upholding the District Court or it means very little to us. I know you know this Mark, just putting it out there for those that are already popping corks on champagne bottles.

I don't know whether I fear or favor the HBAR ban here in Maryland. If they ban the HBAR here in Maryland, we can focus on just that one piece of litigation, which I think is something worth focusing on. If we can get SCOTUS to rule on the HBAR AR-15, that might be the first chip in the anti foundation here in Maryland and it might open Pandora's box for some of the other listed assault weapons.

 

[teratos]

Hey, we have to take the glimmers of hope that come our way. A win in California on mags and a 1st Amendment win on a Motion to Dismiss.

I agree with you though about the case in California. Going to be a long road before that is over. Hope it ends up being as long as possible, reaches SCOTUS, and SCOTUS confirms what the US District Court for the Southern District of California says. Should the 9th Circuit uphold the District Court, it will be a miracle, but even then the holding would only be applicable to California, Alaska, Arizona, and Hawaii. Maryland is a long ways away from them. So, it is either all the way up to SCOTUS with SCOTUS upholding the District Court or it means very little to us. I know you know this Mark, just putting it out there for those that are already popping corks on champagne bottles.

I don't know whether I fear or favor the HBAR ban here in Maryland. If they ban the HBAR here in Maryland, we can focus on just that one piece of litigation, which I think is something worth focusing on. If we can get SCOTUS to rule on the HBAR AR-15, that might be the first chip in the anti foundation here in Maryland and it might open Pandora's box for some of the other listed assault weapons.

I don’t think SCOTUS would take an HBAR only lawsuit. They are more apt to take a case involving the banning of an entire class of firearms, and there are plenty of those.

 

[fabsroman]

I don’t think SCOTUS would take an HBAR only lawsuit. They are more apt to take a case involving the banning of an entire class of firearms, and there are plenty of those.

Nah, I think it makes it a lot easier to rule on a single long gun, apply a test to them all, and then go that route. There might be some in the "class" that the judges are not alright with making legal. It might come down to each firearm being judged on its own, as to common use, etc. None of the weapons on the Maryland Assault Long Gun list is more widely used or more popular than the AR-15. Some of those other weapons, especially the shotguns on the list, might not actually meet the test. First, things first, SCOTUS needs to figure out exactly what test should be used to see if a particular firearm, or class of firearms, receives Heller protection.

I learned my lesson about "lists" on one of the very first cases I tried. My client had an in house credit card that was financed through a bank. The bank refused to pay on some of the accounts. I never really knew why until we got to trial. Anyway, we put the entire list of $7,000 or so up. Believe it was something like 32 accounts. Well, it turns out that a couple of the accounts had forged signatures to them. One of the client's employees had been taking phone orders and signing the customer's name, which was against the contract my client had with the bank and made it impossible for the bank to recover. That gem was dropped on me during trial. Client knew all about it, but never decided to tell me. Guess what the judge did? She gave us ZERO. I'm sure some of the other accounts were valid, but as soon as she looked at those forged signatures and thought I was lying to her, we got NADA.

Having 30+ guns on a list and asking for permission for all of them might be a bit too much of a distraction, versus only having the HBAR on the list. One of the most widely used rifles in the country and with millions and millions of them already in the country.

Chip away, little by little. HBAR, then all AR-15's, then M1A1, AK-47, and just go down the list until one does not pass the SCOTUS test. We need SCOTUS to lay out the framework for a test first and foremost.

 

[Jimboy]

Hey , just a general question, but how many bites at the apple does a law school grad get at passing the bar?

 

[fabsroman]

Hey , just a general question, but how many bites at the apple does a law school grad get at passing the bar?

Not sure how many bites at the apple one gets on the bar exam or the CPA exam in Maryland. I only ever needed to take them once. Scored high enough on the multi-state on the Maryland bar exam to waive into DC. I know some people that have sat for the CPA exam 6 times before passing all parts. So, at least 6 attempts on the CPA exam. I know others that have taken the bar exam in Maryland 3 times before passing, so at least 3 attempts in Maryland. Granted, it has been 25 years since I passed the CPA exam and 20 years since I passed the bar exam, and a lot has changed. Took the CPA exam in a "barn" at the Timonium fairgrounds using pen and paper, and calculators were not allowed. Back then, it was 2 1/2 days in length. I hear nowadays it has been cut back to 2 days.

I am sure I can get you the answer though, which is probably different throughout the 50 states. You just interested in Maryland, or you want the answer for all 50 states? If you are looking for all 50 states, to see where you would have the greatest number of attempts should you decide to attend law school, then I'll have to get back to you after April 15th.

 

[Jimboy]

Thanks. I did some Google Fu and it definitely varies state by state, some have a limited number with conditions, some don't

 

[fabsroman]

Thanks. I did some Google Fu and it definitely varies state by state, some have a limited number with conditions, some don't

Yep, all of the professional licensing varies by state. Cannot waive into Florida with either of my licenses, but Texas welcomes me with open arms both for the Bar and the CPA license. Same goes for my wife's pharmacy license. Some states require her to take the entire exam, some only require the law portion of the exam like Maryland did, and others say come on down we do not require anything other than an application and a fee. I've looked into Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Texas, and Florida. Might look into Kentucky, Tennessee, and Georgia next. I have mixed feelings about moving since it would most likely mean my parents have passed and/or gun control here is off the chain. Just trying to be as informed as possible so I know what my options are.

lol - all this licensing talk reminds me of CCW and how that is vastly different between states. They range from Constitutional Carry to what we have in Maryland.

 

[Bob A]

Few states have as many occupations that require state licensure as Maryland.

Money and control; those are the bywords. You pays your fees and you do what you're told. Step out of line and you step out of your job.

Don't tell md.gov that my wife cuts my hair; she needs a license for that.

Overseeing 21 licensing boards, commissions and programs appointed by the Governor, the Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing is responsible for regulating the activities of more than 246,000 individuals and businesses across 25 professions.



Architects
Athlete Agents
Athletic Commission
Barbers
Cemetery Oversight
Certified Interior Designers
Certified Public Accountants
Cosmetologists
Elevator Safety Review Board
Examiners of Landscape Architects
Foresters
Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning and Refrigeration (HVACR)
Home Improvement
Individual Tax Preparers
Joint Chairs of Design Boards
Land Surveyors
Locksmiths
Master Electricians
Oil and Gas Land Professionals
Pilots
Plumbing
Professional Engineers
Real Estate Appraisers, Appraisal Management Companies and Home Inspectors
Real Estate Commission
Secondhand Precious Metal Objects Dealers and Pawnbrokers
Stationary Engineers

 

[fred2207]

Few states have as many occupations that require state licensure as Maryland.

Money and control; those are the bywords. You pays your fees and you do what you're told. Step out of line and you step out of your job.

Don't tell md.gov that my wife cuts my hair; she needs a license for that.

I wonder what a professional and stationary engineer or Pilots covers? Never had any of those.

 

[fabsroman]

Few states have as many occupations that require state licensure as Maryland.

Money and control; those are the bywords. You pays your fees and you do what you're told. Step out of line and you step out of your job.

Don't tell md.gov that my wife cuts my hair; she needs a license for that.

And that list does not cover attorneys, doctors, dentists, or pharmacists. Willing to bet there are even more licensed health professionals that are not on that list of 21.