Switching uppers on my SBR

[bryanjusmc]

So it's been a while now since I've had my SBR & can. I've recently started toying around with the idea of trying something different. I purchased my SBR from the factory and did an individual transfer. Is it cool for me to try out a different (still SBR) upper on my lower? If it's ok to have different uppers for my lower does anyone know where I can get a different short barreled upper without much hassle? I imagine I'd have to show a copy of my form 4?

 

[Flipz]

So it's been a while now since I've had my SBR & can. I've recently started toying around with the idea of trying something different. I purchased my SBR from the factory and did an individual transfer. Is it cool for me to try out a different (still SBR) upper on my lower? If it's ok to have different uppers for my lower does anyone know where I can get a different short barreled upper without much hassle? I imagine I'd have to show a copy of my form 4?

Uppers are not regulated. You can purchase them without showing anything but cash or credit. It's your responsibility to have the tax stamp, not the retailer's.

A couple of my favorite places for uppers are:

BCM (Bravo Company Machine)
DSG Arms
Rainier Arms

 

[Indiana Jones]

Uppers are not regulated. You can purchase them without showing anything but cash or credit. It's your responsibility to have the tax stamp, not the retailer's.

A couple of my favorite places for uppers are:

BCM (Bravo Company Machine)
DSG Arms
Rainier Arms

But let's say paperwork says 11.5" ad he wants to do a 7". Doesn't that matter?

 

[Flipz]

But let's say paperwork says 11.5" ad he wants to do a 7". Doesn't that matter?

No. The lower is already registered as an SBR. Sending the ATF a letter notifying them of the additional upper and its details are what most do. They will respond with a letter informing you that the additional upper's details have been noted in their file.

Make note that if you are permanently changing uppers you will need to notify the ATF with the details aswell.

 

[Indiana Jones]

No. The lower is already registered as an SBR. Sending the ATF a letter notifying them of the additional upper and its details are what most do. They will respond with a letter informing you that the additional upper's details have been noted in their file.

Make note that if you are permanently changing uppers you will need to notify the ATF with the details aswell.

So the additional letter to ATF about upper change is or isn't mandatory?

 

[Flipz]

So the additional letter to ATF about upper change is or isn't mandatory?

That's still up for debate. Some say yes, some say no. What I will say is that I've personally called the ATF a few times with that question and have been told multiple answers. One person I spoke to there said you must send the letter, another told me its not needed, and another told me to send the letter but that I didnt have to wait for a response prior to attaching the new additional upper.

The safe bet, send the letter. Cover your own ass. If something bad happens you can't go into court and say that someone at the ATF said something and have no proof to back it up. Their acknowledgment letter is your proof. And you only get one of those if you send a letter first. In the end, it costs nothing but the postage stamp. Send the letter.

 

[Indiana Jones]

That's still up for debate. Some say yes, some say no. What I will say is that I've personally called the ATF a few times with that question and have been told multiple answers. One person I spoke to there said you must send the letter, another told me its not needed, and another told me to send the letter but that I didnt have to wait for a response prior to attaching the new additional upper.

The safe bet, send the letter. Cover your own ass. If something bad happens you can't go into court and say that someone at the ATF said something and have no proof to back it up. Their acknowledgment letter is your proof. And you only get one of those if you send a letter first. In the end, it costs nothing but the postage stamp. Send the letter.

Sounds good. I'm pretty big into CYA. Need an SBR first

 

[Indiana Jones]

That's still up for debate. Some say yes, some say no. What I will say is that I've personally called the ATF a few times with that question and have been told multiple answers. One person I spoke to there said you must send the letter, another told me its not needed, and another told me to send the letter but that I didnt have to wait for a response prior to attaching the new additional upper.

The safe bet, send the letter. Cover your own ass. If something bad happens you can't go into court and say that someone at the ATF said something and have no proof to back it up. Their acknowledgment letter is your proof. And you only get one of those if you send a letter first. In the end, it costs nothing but the postage stamp. Send the letter.

Sounds good. I'm pretty big into CYA. Need an SBR first

 

[Flipz]

Need an SBR first

My advice, if you can afford it don't wait any longer. It'll take 6+ months to get the stamp back. Its a long wait. But soooo worth it. The longer you wait to send in the forms, the longer its gonna be till you have the stamp in your hands.

 

[ViperRy]

When I talked to Dana Pickels, he stated that a letter informing them of additional uppers is required. I put the additional upper's barrel legnth, OAL, and the serial# of the SBR lower it was going on in the letter. A letter is also required for change of original configuration (do this only if you're changing the configuration of the upper you originally sent in the paper work for)

Don't listen to those that say you don't have to send one in... why take risks over something that should take you no more than 5 min and a 45cent stamp.

 

[Flipz]

Don't listen to those that say you don't have to send one in... why take risks over something that should take you no more than 5 min and a 45cent stamp.

+1

It's not worth the risk when you only have pennies to spend to do it. Send in the letter. When you get their reply letter keep the original with your Form1/4 and a copy in your range bag.

 

[bikerbankr]

I was thinking about registering one of my stripped lowers as an SBR but haven't yet decided how I want to build it. Does this mean I can't do the paperwork until I make that decision then would have to send an update letter if I change my mind between approval and the actual build?

I haven't taken the time to look at the paperwork yet so, sorry in advance if it's a dumb question.

 

[Dogabutila]

Can you register the lower on a form 1 as multi barrel length?

 

[ViperRy]

I was thinking about registering one of my stripped lowers as an SBR but haven't yet decided how I want to build it. Does this mean I can't do the paperwork until I make that decision then would have to send an update letter if I change my mind between approval and the actual build?

I haven't taken the time to look at the paperwork yet so, sorry in advance if it's
a dumb question.

You do not have to build the lower to register it. In fact, if you're going the trust route, leave it stripped to send to the engraver. Take a little time to do some research. Ask yourself what your goals are for the SBR, eg, do you want to run it suppressed? This will give you a better idea of what barrel length you should go with.

As Flipz said, get that paper work in asap as wait times are ridiculous. Put down what barrel length you honestly believe you will be installing in the upper. If you have a fully assembled AR now, fully extend the stock, measure the distance. Subtract the difference of the sbr barrel length you plan on installing... you have your OAL.

People's mind change in the matter of 6 months. If yours does also, just send them a letter to change the original configuration. The letters that I have sent to the NFA branch came back within a couple of weeks.

Can you register the lower on a form 1 as multi barrel length?

No, do not do this. You will surely get put into problem status and delayed.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

You CYA guys make it a pain for everyone.

Where in law does it say you must notify them of changes other than of address or ownership?

MG people swap Calibers conversion and barrels of different length ALL the time and no one sends a letter to the ATF! Just because you have a SBR and you are changing the SB on the R does not mean they need a letter. Now if you do a permanate change it would probably would not hurt. However for just trying out different uppers... give me a break! All you guys are doing is slowing things down at the ATF and making our wait time longer!

Right now, I have a Caliber conversion on one MG, a complete new upper on another with a caliber conversion on it too! That gun currently has two barrels of different length on it and neither is as long as the original. No letter is going to the ATF!

I mean if you repaint your AR with a camo paintjob do you write to the ATF and tell them? Its on the form, what finish it has!!!

Follow the law, the actual law! If you can't find it in the law, then don't do it. After all they will not have to take your rights if you just give them up to CYA!

The Law says that you must have a SBR registered and you do! Bottom line and the end of it! You are not going to Jail because you change out barrel on a gun thats registered as a SBR. Let me ask you guys.... when you transport your guns... ever take the upper off? Do you write to the ATF with a barrel length of "0" inches!!!!

Rant off...

 

[Flipz]

You CYA guys make it a pain for everyone.

Where in law does it say you must notify them of changes other than of address or ownership?

MG people swap Calibers conversion and barrels of different length ALL the time and no one sends a letter to the ATF! Just because you have a SBR and you are changing the SB on the R does not mean they need a letter. Now if you do a permanate change it would probably would not hurt. However for just trying out different uppers... give me a break! All you guys are doing is slowing things down at the ATF and making our wait time longer!

Right now, I have a Caliber conversion on one MG, a complete new upper on another with a caliber conversion on it too! That gun currently has two barrels of different length on it and neither is as long as the original. No letter is going to the ATF!

I mean if you repaint your AR with a camo paintjob do you write to the ATF and tell them? Its on the form, what finish it has!!!

Follow the law, the actual law! If you can't find it in the law, then don't do it. After all they will not have to take your rights if you just give them up to CYA!

The Law says that you must have a SBR registered and you do! Bottom line and the end of it! You are not going to Jail because you change out barrel on a gun thats registered as a SBR. Let me ask you guys.... when you transport your guns... ever take the upper off? Do you write to the ATF with a barrel length of "0" inches!!!!

Rant off...

Not trying to start an arguement so dont take it that way but, everyone has an opinion..... Even lawyers and judges.

And btw, MG's are exempt from barrel length restrictions. So its not really a good comparison.

And how is anyone giving up their rights by mailing a letter?

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Not trying to start an arguement so dont take it that way but, everyone has an opinion..... Even lawyers and judges.

And btw, MG's are exempt from barrel length restrictions. So its not really a good comparison.

And how is anyone giving up their rights by mailing a letter?

Na, we are just talking, no feelings are getting hurt on this issue! Yup you are welcome to have a wrong opinion

The barrel length is not the part being registered with a MG but still must be listed on the form! An SBR also does not have barrel length restrictions... thats what the $200 is for... so you can go lower than 16"s. If you want to drop a 18" barrel on, thats fine too. The SBR stamp is for any length under 16"s and so the exact length is not really important. Everything else is just a matter how the description matches the gun at the time when you see it. So if you paint it, have it without an upper.... or have a different size barrel on it... its all the same as it does not match how the gun looked when the gun was registered. But it does not have to!

My point is that if you do more than the law requires, you are giving up your rights to the government without them even requiring you to do so. The NFA is unconstitutional to begin with, by some giving up more info than required it puts us that don't in a position to make it look like we are doing something bad. Look at the SS numbers. Once only required on a SS and tax info, now half the world needs it because people just give it up.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Na, we are just talking, no feelings are getting hurt on this issue! Yup you are welcome to have a wrong opinion

The barrel length is not the part being registered with a MG but still must be listed on the form! An SBR also does not have barrel length restrictions... thats what the $200 is for... so you can go lower than 16"s. If you want to drop a 18" barrel on, thats fine too. The SBR stamp is for any length under 16"s and so the exact length is not really important. Everything else is just a matter how the description matches the gun at the time when you see it. So if you paint it, have it without an upper.... or have a different size barrel on it... its all the same as it does not match how the gun looked when the gun was registered. But it does not have to!

My point is that if you do more than the law requires, you are giving up your rights to the government without them even requiring you to do so. The NFA is unconstitutional to begin with, by some giving up more info than required it puts us that don't in a position to make it look like we are doing something bad. Look at the SS numbers. Once only required on a SS and tax info, now half the world needs it because people just give it up.

Your occupation must not require CYA. For some of us it is of the utmost importance and carries into everything we do.

 

[ViperRy]

Some people prepare for the worst case scenario, some for the the best case scenario. If the analyst that signs off on my form 1s/4s ect. says I must send in a letter to inform them of an addition or change, you bet your ass I will. He then signs a letter back that the addition was annotated in their National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record... seems pretty legit to me. We all know that the ATF interprets and enforces the laws their own way. If something ever went down, I'd have peace of mind knowing that the NFA items I own are registered by their requirements.

A member on arfcom was shooting on some land his family or friend owned. Officers came by and confiscated his firearms due to a house that was behind where they were shooting being struck (wasn't them as they knew the house was there and they heard other hunters in the woods). From what I remember, one of the firearms confiscated was NFA.

Hypothetically, lets say the department calls the NFA branch and checks on firearm. The department says it looks like a 7" barrel and the NFA branch comes back with 11.5". Do you really want to go down that road? Like I said... 5 minutes, 45cents, probably less time it took you to write that rant.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Your occupation must not require CYA. For some of us it is of the utmost importance and carries into everything we do.

In Engineering College, you are taught to get it right the first time and everytime because no CYA will work!

"If the analyst that signs off on my form 1s/4s ect. says I must send in a letter to inform them of an addition or change, you bet your ass I will. "

Some people just do as they are told, some ask why. Mr Pickles sent me a letter saying I needed a LEO Sign off on my Form 1 for my Dewat MG. I called him up, ATF guide book in hand, and showed him why he was wrong. He thanked me and sent my paperwork back in 2 days! I had to deal with this because for years people just did as they were told and not making the ATF get it right!

The last time I called the state police, I told the cop telling me that I must ship a firearm out of the state using an FFL that she was wrong and she agreed... she knew she was.

Read the law and follow an informed opinion on it.

"We all know that the ATF interprets and enforces the laws their own way. If something ever went down, I'd have peace of mind knowing that the NFA items I own are registered by their requirements."

The ATF is like the IRS, if they want you, they will get you! You should not have any more peace and its still registed as required!

"Hypothetically, lets say the department calls the NFA branch and checks on firearm. The department says it looks like a 7" barrel and the NFA branch comes back with 11.5"."

They check guns by type and serial number. So long as its still an SBR (not MG) and has the same serial number it will check out! Have you never called to check on a gun?

They may also say the finish says black on the form and you painted it camo or you stored it without an upper.... oh no... they may not think its the same gun... why everyone is so hung up on barrel length is just odd. You bought a tax stamp for a SBR... that covers a 7" or 11.5" barrel! Tax is paid, you are fine! You got to jail for not paying the tax, so if its paid, you are fine! Show me the law!