The Death of Surplus and it's consequences

[240 towles]

Hello all.
Back in 2009, I bought two Romanian Tokarev TTCs from JG sales with my C+R license. I greatly enjoyed these guns and the hot 1400 FPS 7.62x25 rnds that they shot. I added compensators and Egyptian wraparound grips. I used to shoot two hundred rounds every time I went to the range. I always cleaned the pistols well when I was through as I shot corrosive surplus exclusively. I could buy 70 round boxes for around 5.00 a box.

Then one day, the surplus train stopped rather abruptly. Almost overnight, all my distributors ran out of 7.62x25, and no new surplus came in. The options for replacement ammo became few and far between as ammo crisis after ammo crisis came in waves. I still see surplus ammo at local pawn shops and gun shows, but at 50-75 cents a round. New production ammo [when available] sells 25.00+ per 50 rounds. The future of these fine pistols looks very similar to the Nagant revolver. I only have around 550 rounds left.

So I am forced to make a decision. Keep in mind, I like the guns.

1. Keep the guns, knowing they will become safe queens that can only be shot at the same cost as .357 Magnum.

2. Sell / trade the guns and ammo. [This is easy as Kentucky law allows trading/ sales without FFLs] and use the money to get a new gun that I can get ammo for easily. The ammo is far more valuable now than when I bought it.

3. Shoot all the ammo, have a fun day, then trade/ sell the guns to something I could more realistically use.

Any opinions would be appreciated. I really like the guns, but I don't like guns I can't shoot or afford to shoot often.

 

[Inigoes]

4) Reload

There is a thread around here, that converts 556 casings to 7.62X25

Here you go: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=136724

 

[240 towles]

4) Reload

There is a thread around here, that converts 556 casings to 7.62X25

as I have no reloading equipment presently. I really can't afford to start a whole new setup.

 

[yellowsled]

reload or minimize ur shooting to 50rds a trip.

 

[Machodoc]

It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" proposition. While the cheap surplus ammo is almost a thing of the past, hopefully, the commercial ammo will come down in price in the future. After all, you can't even shoot "cheap" .22 LR at the moment. Get something that you like in 9mm (take a look at the Canik Stingray-C) so that you have something to shoot that uses a round that's about as available and anything, then shoot the Toks every now and then.

 

[Mooseman]

I would keep one and sell one. Use the money from the sale of the one to buy reloading gear. You can then load for the one you have left and shoot it as much as you wish.

 

[240 towles]

It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" proposition. While the cheap surplus ammo is almost a thing of the past, hopefully, the commercial ammo will come down in price in the future. After all, you can't even shoot "cheap" .22 LR at the moment. Get something that you like in 9mm (take a look at the Canik Stingray-C) so that you have something to shoot that uses a round that's about as available and anything, then shoot the Toks every now and then.

I have plenty of nine mils, in fact, it is probably my most popular round. At 10.00 per 50, it is certainly the most bang for my buck. I have wanted a calico for a long time, that is probably what I would buy if I sold them.

The problem I see with waiting for ammo to come down in price is the fact that the 7.62x25 round is nowhere near as popular as the big three. I highly doubt the price will come down to 15.00 per 50 anytime soon. My last trip to a local pawn shop showed the best price to be 20.00 for 30 rounds

 

[clandestine]

I sold all of my collectible/c&r stuff for this reason. I'm a shooter anyway, I'm not a collector.

Only you can decide if selling it all is the right call. I sold about 100 guns to fund my serious use blasters.

I decided I would prefer to have a dozen really well equipped guns that have available replacement parts and all using ready available calibers. Buying suppressors, tax stamps, night vision, flir, and such.

 

[Inigoes]

There is always the 9mm conversion kits for the TTCs, if you can find them

 

[QuebecoisWolf]

I’m just getting into the market for 7.62 Toks. Yes, I know the timing sucks. So why now? Because of three basic reasons:

-You can buy them without an HQL.

-They’re historically significant.

-Now that ammo has dried up, the guns are turning into something of a buyer’s market.

Note Point 3. The guns aren’t ever going to be as cheap as they were in 2007, but they're coming down in price. There’s a glut of Toks on Gunbroker at the moment and only the very cheapest are actually selling. About a year ago, I saw a CZ 52 in a gun shop with a 9mm conversion barrel and the shopkeeper said that he was glad that it came with the barrel or else he didn’t think that it would ever leave the cabinet.

Given that you’ve altered your Toks (and in a way that would be really, really awesome if surplus ammo was still cheap), they’re not going to appeal to the collector or historian. Brutal honesty? I think that you’ll have a very hard time selling them unless you provide at least a modest supply of ammo.

I think that you should keep them. There are so many of these guns around and ammo prices are so high that I feel sooner or later, someone may start making inexpensive ammo for them along the lines of Tula or Wolf. Other calibers have started to fall in price and I think that 7.62x25 may follow. But it’s hard to say for sure… especially in a caliber that’s virtually obsolete.

 

[winterfaust]

I sold all of my collectible/c&r stuff for this reason. I'm a shooter anyway, I'm not a collector.

Only you can decide if selling it all is the right call. I sold about 100 guns to fund my serious use blasters.

I decided I would prefer to have a dozen really well equipped guns that have available replacement parts and all using ready available calibers. Buying suppressors, tax stamps, night vision, flir, and such.

This +1

 

[Machodoc]

I sold all of my collectible/c&r stuff for this reason. I'm a shooter anyway, I'm not a collector.

Only you can decide if selling it all is the right call. I sold about 100 guns to fund my serious use blasters.

I decided I would prefer to have a dozen really well equipped guns that have available replacement parts and all using ready available calibers. Buying suppressors, tax stamps, night vision, flir, and such.

This +1

Absolutely your call ... but why post this in a C&R thread? For that matter, I'm not quite sure why the OP posted this thread in the first place.

There are lots of C&R and antique firearms that are, for a number of reasons, either not practical to shoot often, if at all. If someone buys a C&R firearm only because it has a cheap initial price, or because they think it's going to be cheaper than something else to shoot, they don't really get what this group is about. Some folks here have offered suggestions, like getting reloading equipment and learning to use it to re-form other cases, that will allow the OP to continue shooting the guns that he has, but those weren't suitable answers for the OP.

That leaves only one logical conclusion: sell the guns and buy something modern that he'll be happy with. Then a collector can put his pistols back to original configuration and be happy with them, and he can buy something modern in a more readily accessible caliber that he'll be happy with.

Although many C&R firearms are great shooters (most, in fact), people who are just looking for cheap shooters might do better to look at lower-priced modern firearms. There are some excellent ones out there.

 

[j8064]

Absolutely your call ... but why post this in a C&R thread? For that matter, I'm not quite sure why the OP posted this thread in the first place.

There are lots of C&R and antique firearms that are, for a number of reasons, either not practical to shoot often, if at all. If someone buys a C&R firearm only because it has a cheap initial price, or because they think it's going to be cheaper than something else to shoot, they don't really get what this group is about. Some folks here have offered suggestions, like getting reloading equipment and learning to use it to re-form other cases, that will allow the OP to continue shooting the guns that he has, but those weren't suitable answers for the OP.

That leaves only one logical conclusion: sell the guns and buy something modern that he'll be happy with. Then a collector can put his pistols back to original configuration and be happy with them, and he can buy something modern in a more readily accessible caliber that he'll be happy with.

Although many C&R firearms are great shooters (most, in fact), people who are just looking for cheap shooters might do better to look at lower-priced modern firearms. There are some excellent ones out there.

This. ^^^

In the meantime please continue to leave all those nice 223/556 cases behind at the range. I have 6 C&R handguns that like my home made 7.62x25. Besides, I'm now into making 300 BLK cases and need to scrounge even more 223's. It's always something...

 

[BLACKTALON]

Absolutely your call ... but why post this in a C&R thread? For that matter, I'm not quite sure why the OP posted this thread in the first place.

There are lots of C&R and antique firearms that are, for a number of reasons, either not practical to shoot often, if at all. If someone buys a C&R firearm only because it has a cheap initial price, or because they think it's going to be cheaper than something else to shoot, they don't really get what this group is about. Some folks here have offered suggestions, like getting reloading equipment and learning to use it to re-form other cases, that will allow the OP to continue shooting the guns that he has, but those weren't suitable answers for the OP.

That leaves only one logical conclusion: sell the guns and buy something modern that he'll be happy with. Then a collector can put his pistols back to original configuration and be happy with them, and he can buy something modern in a more readily accessible caliber that he'll be happy with.

Although many C&R firearms are great shooters (most, in fact), people who are just looking for cheap shooters might do better to look at lower-priced modern firearms. There are some excellent ones out there.

you guys really like to run others out of the C&R section you know lol

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Keep all the guns.

Keep all the ammo.

Buy more guns when you can.

Buy more ammo when you can.

And what Machodoc said and j8064 second.


PS: j8064, I'm sitting on a couple hundred 223/556 cases left over from making 300blk cases. Say the word and their yours.

 

[BradMacc82]

Finding Tok food for .35cpr before shipping (18.99/50), granted it's not as cheap as it used to be, but it could be worse.

 

[erwos]

Hunt up a 9mm barrel and bushing, like I did. You can use TT-33 mags, or buy one of the Chinese mags with a spacer.

 

[clandestine]

Absolutely your call ... but why post this in a C&R thread? For that matter, I'm not quite sure why the OP posted this thread in the first place.

There are lots of C&R and antique firearms that are, for a number of reasons, either not practical to shoot often, if at all. If someone buys a C&R firearm only because it has a cheap initial price, or because they think it's going to be cheaper than something else to shoot, they don't really get what this group is about. Some folks here have offered suggestions, like getting reloading equipment and learning to use it to re-form other cases, that will allow the OP to continue shooting the guns that he has, but those weren't suitable answers for the OP.

That leaves only one logical conclusion: sell the guns and buy something modern that he'll be happy with. Then a collector can put his pistols back to original configuration and be happy with them, and he can buy something modern in a more readily accessible caliber that he'll be happy with.

Although many C&R firearms are great shooters (most, in fact), people who are just looking for cheap shooters might do better to look at lower-priced modern firearms. There are some excellent ones out there.

I ansewered the O.P. as I understood his inquiry.

I have also modified older guns to take suppressors because I'm a shooter not a collector. That makes most C&R guys head explode. No different than hot rodding a 3 window IMO.

 

[Machodoc]

you guys really like to run others out of the C&R section you know lol

There wasn't anything about my posting that involved running anyone out of the C&R group. It's just that when someone comes into this group and, in so many words, says, "I don't like my C&R firearm, what should I do?" The answer is pretty clear-cut: sell it to someone who does like it, and get something you do like with the money.

That's not running someone out--it's applying logic. Many of us have wives who are wired this way. They are unhappy with a situation and want their feelings to be heard. They aren't so much interested in how to fix the situation as they are in being heard and understood. I'm good with that, with her, but I'm not married to anyone on here.

By the same token, when someone essentially says, "I sold all my C&R firearms because I like modern plastic things better", the logical response is, OK, that's your choice. Whatever floats your boat ... but why go into the C&R area to say you don't like them? This is an area for people who DO like C&Rs.

If I went into a group for, say, edged weapons and told people that I don't like them and am unhappy with the Brand X bayonet that I bought, I'd expect people to tell me not to let the door hit me in the ass on my way out.

I ansewered the O.P. as I understood his inquiry.

I have also modified older guns to take suppressors because I'm a shooter not a collector. That makes most C&R guys head explode. No different than hot rodding a 3 window IMO.

Fair enough ... but why go into a group of collectors and say that. What's the point? Likewise, if you want to chop up a 3-window coupe that's your right to do so, but going into an auto restorer's group and bragging about it is just being an ass. Why do that? If you really think it's getting people here all in a tizzy, you're wrong. Sorry. Nobody's head is going to explode. You just lose all credibility with people in the group for doing it.

 

[BRONZ]

There hasnt been many but every gun I sold or traded was always a mistake.