That's what I've been doing.
The Mighty Armory decapper has been awesome, but now I need to swage primer pockets before I size and trim. It's going to take a while and it's a PITA but it needs to be done.
What did you do at your reloading bench today?
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The Mighty Armory decapper has been awesome, but now I need to swage primer pockets before I size and trim. It's going to take a while and it's a PITA but it needs to be done.
I have access to a Dillon sizer trimmer but it's lack of an expander and the fact that I have to run the cases in the giraud afterwards anyway to chamfer and debur negates the utility of a sizer trimmer. That and the resultant cases shoot like absolute ass compared to trimming the way i do. Triple the group sizes (tested with 20x scope instead of my usual 1-4 or 1-8 in place) and more than triple the ES.
I no longer swage. I only cut the crimps out. And it's a pain.
HonestFool03
Active Member
- Feb 24, 2009
- 786
Weird. I've done it both ways, by hand and with the Lyman on press trimmer.
The cut is clean so I toss em in the tumbler with some stainless pins after, but I'm getting sub moa with 77 grain SMK in my gas guns.
If you are loading for PRS and the like, then mass processing is kind of out of the question I would imagine.
Anyhow, once they've been through the tumbler I load em as regular. Lyman M die, powder through die, seating, and crimp. Again though, one wouldn't be using a powder through die if they are trying to get the tiniest groups possible
Just figured I'd share my results. Not for everyone I suppose but it works for me.
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Running Nosler 69s and 77s, depending on which rig, and the goal is single digit SDs in the gasguns. Single digit ES in the boltguns.
The 24" gasgun will park five 69s in just over half an inch of I do the prep work right. Powder charges are individually weighed. If it's going to be shot for testing (or money) they are double weighed.
HonestFool03
Active Member
- Feb 24, 2009
- 786
Yeah, we're coming from 2 different ends of the spectrum here.
I wouldn't dream of trying to accomplish that on a progressive.
Impressive none the less.
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I am really loving my Lyman case trim xpress. Trims very accurately and quickly. Appears pretty concentric. Cases do not need to be chamfered afterwards as the cutter does that while trimming.
That said, it wears on your thumb pressing the cases in. I put on a pair of cotton gloves to keep it from wearing some of the skin off, which can happen when you do 1000 rounds. Better to push with your thumb than try to grip the entire case and push it in.
Anyway, I can run about 500 cases an hour through the Xpress.
I don’t know about many thousands, but I ran about about 1500 cases months ago and I’ve only loaded about 500 of them so far. I’ve got a 2-gallon bucket of 223 and 5.56 that I should put through the tumbler soon to clean them up. Get them ready for a rainy day of resizing. Then tumble again. Then trim. Then separate out the 5.56 and the FC .223 to run all of that through my APP primer swage (FC are kind of dicks for crimping their .223 primer pockets).
Doing a ton at each step is nice. I love to reload. I don’t really like case prep. Plus all of it works better batching it rather than trying to only do 100-200 cases at a time through everything. So I’d rather spend a day running brass through my tumbler. Then a couple or a few days trimming brass a few hundred rounds at a time every hour or three all day long. Etc.
I use a Lee auto drum and powder through did for the initial weight, dump it on my Hornady electronic scale and then trickle up. I generally set the auto drum to dump .1gr light. With ball powders the auto drum is generally spot on. About 1 in 5 it’ll come in .1gr high and about 1 in 10 it’ll come in .1gr low. So by setting it .1gr low intentionally, the rare high ones just get dumped right back in the case. Most just need a tiny nudge of the trickler to get them right, and very rare ones need a little more than a tiny nudge.
extruded powder I set it .2gr low as it isn’t very accurate there. But tends more often to come in .1-.2gr low, rarely .3gr low. Occasionally .1 and rarely .2gr high.
First ladders for Hornady 75gr ELD-m and CFE 223 and Hornady BTHP 75gr. I need to play with things a little more, but hottest load saw 14fps SD for the BTHP and 10fps SD for the ELD-m. Just at MOA for the BTHP and about .7MOA for the ELD-m
The Nosler E-tips 120gr I loaded up for Grendel saw 7fps SD and a .7MOA group. I didn’t run the 120gr SMK over a chrono this time. Last time I got 11fps SD and .9MOA. This time I came in at about .6MOA for the hottest rung of the ladder. .2gr rungs and took it slightly warmer than last time (30.8-31.4gr at 2.260”). I may try running these long with more powder. My Howa’s mag length is 2.320”. I had the E-tips loaded out at 2.315” and 29gr. I can probably push 2.315” and around 32-32.2gr. Might be more accurate with a shorter jump, and I can probably squeeze 20-40fps without increasing pressure.
I can generally keep ES under 30 on the Dillon with certain powders.Yeah, we're coming from 2 different ends of the spectrum here.
I wouldn't dream of trying to accomplish that on a progressive.
Impressive none the less.
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I single stage load anything where I'm running extruded powder because even the Harrell measure can't keep the extruded stuff under a tenth grain spread. The Harrell blows Dillon and redding measures away but even it isn't good enough for the long range game.
guzma393
Active Member
Primed 400 cases of 223 with the lee pro 6000 today. I finally got a primitive "bench" set up at my new place fashioned out of pallet wood i got from my bulk shipment of flooring and 2 harbor freight bench grinders.
It also took time to figure out my brass cleaning recipe again, but I finally got it down.
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It also took time to figure out my brass cleaning recipe again, but I finally got it down.
Sent from my SM-A136U1 using Tapatalk
That’s too pretty to shoot.Primed 400 cases of 223 with the lee pro 6000 today. I finally got a primitive "bench" set up at my new place fashioned out of pallet wood i got from my bulk shipment of flooring and 2 harbor freight bench grinders.
It also took time to figure out my brass cleaning recipe again, but I finally got it down.
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Nah. All my brass looks like that too. And I shoot it.
I like brass that has seen some stuff :-)
Mostly it is that I am not willing to wet tumble brass.
Not that I am surprised at all, but it was a little eye opening with my new 223 brass. I've mostly been getting SDs in the 20 range with used 223 brass (sorted by head stamp) working up loads. In Grendel I am using all new Starline brass. I bought 250 cases when I got in to reloading, which was also not long after getting in to Grendel (that predates my reloading by a year). I then bought another 250 cases shortly after COVID. Then I bought another 150 cases when I found a deal just a few months ago. Not a ton, but I am just on the last few of that first batch of 250 now in 3 1/2 years. Yeah, I need to load and shoot more Grendel. Anywho. For Grendel I've been getting in to the low teens with handloads for SDs. 223, I've only been able to push it down to around 20fps SD.
Well, I bought 500 Starline cases. Not the best brass in the universe, but so far my limited experience is, it is just fine, and made to pretty good quality standards. Better than most commercial ammunition brass seems to be from loaded ammunition (I have not tried loading Nosler brass, or Lapua, or a couple of the other premium brands as I only have a few dozens once fired cases of said brand).
Anyway, so it took my SDs from ~20, down to 8-10fps. Group sizes also most likely shrunk slightly too, though first time I am shooting those Hornady bullets.
And when you pair great components together, it gets better it seems. Because Grendel I was mostly running low teens with Starline brass there. I didn't chrono this recent ladder of 120 SMKs, but the last one I laddered, I saw 8fps SD and 16fps ES for the hottest rung (all 5 shot rungs). Because I'd been loading all Federal and Hornady bullets so far.
Anyway, not something most of you guys probably weren't aware of. And I know, quality components lead to better results. Still, neat to see in action.
Of course, there is me mostly cranking out a ton of Armscor 62gr .223 loads on non-sorted brass, and not hand measuring loads, just loading on my Lee Classic with a Lee Auto drum. Because its good enough. It'll turn in 2MOA with my Howa or my 20" AR, which is just fine for plinking. It'll still put SDs in the ~30 range. Which is better than any blasting 223 or 5.56 ammo I've bothered to test (which mostly seems to run in the 40s-60s depending on whose it is). And more accurate, not just more consistent. Then again, I can load 100 rounds like that in the time it takes me to weigh and then trickle 20 rounds.
Mostly it is that I am not willing to wet tumble brass.
Not that I am surprised at all, but it was a little eye opening with my new 223 brass. I've mostly been getting SDs in the 20 range with used 223 brass (sorted by head stamp) working up loads. In Grendel I am using all new Starline brass. I bought 250 cases when I got in to reloading, which was also not long after getting in to Grendel (that predates my reloading by a year). I then bought another 250 cases shortly after COVID. Then I bought another 150 cases when I found a deal just a few months ago. Not a ton, but I am just on the last few of that first batch of 250 now in 3 1/2 years. Yeah, I need to load and shoot more Grendel. Anywho. For Grendel I've been getting in to the low teens with handloads for SDs. 223, I've only been able to push it down to around 20fps SD.
Well, I bought 500 Starline cases. Not the best brass in the universe, but so far my limited experience is, it is just fine, and made to pretty good quality standards. Better than most commercial ammunition brass seems to be from loaded ammunition (I have not tried loading Nosler brass, or Lapua, or a couple of the other premium brands as I only have a few dozens once fired cases of said brand).
Anyway, so it took my SDs from ~20, down to 8-10fps. Group sizes also most likely shrunk slightly too, though first time I am shooting those Hornady bullets.
And when you pair great components together, it gets better it seems. Because Grendel I was mostly running low teens with Starline brass there. I didn't chrono this recent ladder of 120 SMKs, but the last one I laddered, I saw 8fps SD and 16fps ES for the hottest rung (all 5 shot rungs). Because I'd been loading all Federal and Hornady bullets so far.
Anyway, not something most of you guys probably weren't aware of. And I know, quality components lead to better results. Still, neat to see in action.
Of course, there is me mostly cranking out a ton of Armscor 62gr .223 loads on non-sorted brass, and not hand measuring loads, just loading on my Lee Classic with a Lee Auto drum. Because its good enough. It'll turn in 2MOA with my Howa or my 20" AR, which is just fine for plinking. It'll still put SDs in the ~30 range. Which is better than any blasting 223 or 5.56 ammo I've bothered to test (which mostly seems to run in the 40s-60s depending on whose it is). And more accurate, not just more consistent. Then again, I can load 100 rounds like that in the time it takes me to weigh and then trickle 20 rounds.
I can achieve the tighter ES in used brass but I also anneal every cycle. I will have to root around but I think it was range brass sorted to one headstamp that I fully processed and I was doing workups in one of my gasguns that had several of the charge weights holding single digit SDs. You don't need new brass for that.
In my bolt guns, I am developing loads for new bullets with brass that's been fired 10-15 times. I am that damn picky about process and neck tension consistency.
In my bolt guns, I am developing loads for new bullets with brass that's been fired 10-15 times. I am that damn picky about process and neck tension consistency.
So far I've only shot my Starline brass for a second firing once and constancy changed very little. That I think is as much that I need to tweak my load slightly due to the higher internal volume after it has been fired once. CFE223 seems to have a relatively narrow node for accuracy right around max pressure for the cartridge. At least with my 6.5G and 223 testing. I haven't done enough .308 testing to say much on the topic there. Anyway, I think I need to add in another couple tenths of a grain for once fired Starline brass and I think it'll take my SDs from low teens back into the high single digits.
I have no doubt using benchrest primers along with being exacting in neck tension, pocket uniformity, annealing every cycle and trimming to exact lengths each time would push it even lower. But I have not yet reached that level of detail. Not sure I will, but I'll never say never :-)
When 99% of my shooting is to 100yds max, seems like chasing meaningless results to shave small fractions of an inch off already decently far under 1 inch groups and shaving single digit feet per second off extreme spreads smaller than age of most of the whiskey I drink. Not that perfection isn't in and of itself something great. Or if you shoot to 1000+yds or in competition it isn't worth while.
Since the deer I shoot have all been well under 100yds and I don't shoot in competition...
I don't use br primers unless that's what I can get.
Tried cfe223 in a couple different chamberings. High velocities but never the best groups or ESs. Wrote it off.
I did load testing for a guys grendel bolt gun and settled on 8208xbr. Never owned one myself. Sticking with my 6br as a tweener for more than 223 less than 260/308.
I keep looking for that, as I've heard it is angel dust. I've still yet to actually find any in the real world. Or correct, the couple of times I stumbled across it, the source wanted like $60+ a pound, plus another $40 in shipping and hazmat.
At least right now, with premium bullets and those Starline cases, I am seeing single digit SDs and under 20fps ES for 5 shot groups. Both Howa's, 22" standard barrel .223 and 20" heavy barrel Grendel, are quite capable of shooting under 1MOA 5 shot groups, in some cases close to .5MOA. Certainly down around there if you want to shoot a few groups and pick just the best one.
So at least for me, CFE 223 seems to be delivering. I have no doubt there is better stuff out there. Hence, why I am intrigued by 8208xbr. With a perk that 8208xbr is a lot more temperature stable. I haven't seen any issues with CFE 223 and temperature stability for actual accuracy or pressure. What seems to be accurate shooting in 20s and 30s seems to continue to be accurate on hot steamy days in the 80s and 90s here. I'd imagine any velocity induced POI shift for my uses would be negligible.
But CFE223 seems very sensitive to case fill (it wants >100%) with that narrow accuracy node. I've only messed with a couple of other rifle powders so far, but others seem way less sensitive to that. Like A2495 in my limited .30-06 and .308 loading seems to be a pretty wide consistency node. Trying to replicated M2 Ball for my Garand, granted with iron sights, using Hornady 150gr BMJBT bullets, from min to max tested loads accuracy was all right around 2MOA without any major shift in group size. The warmer loads were about on 2MOA and the cooler groups were maybe closer to 2.5MOA, but that could be as much me and my skill with irons (which is a heck of a lot less than what I can shoot with a scope. My 20" AR can easily shoot 1MOA with really good ammo, with irons and the same, I am lucky to shoot much under 2MOA). Constancy was all pretty even. Not as improvessive as my CFE 223 loading, but I am also shooting it out of guns that are ~80 years old. I was seeing high teens SDs without more than maybe a 20% spread from the most to the least consistent. I think the best was around 20, 22fps and the best was around 15-16.
Yeah some powders "work" more consistently in certain cases than others. My old reliable for general 308 loading is 4064. For a high performance 155 in a conventional chamber, I run varget. For extreme performance in a Palma barrel, I ran RL17 (and I won't say how much) for a velocity of over 3050 with the same 155 that does 2930-2950 in my 24" Krieger.
DO NOT do it in your garand but for best performance with heavies in a 3006 bolt gun I have gone to a compressed load of RL19. It is giving me 2730-2740 with 208/210 class bullets.
85MikeTPI
Ultimate Member
Built a simple wood clamp for drilling the 5/16" hole to mount the AQ rifled fins on the pellet slugs. Assembled them along with a few hundred zeverboy and 50cal sabot packages for bulk loading with tested loaddata from camp.
