What I get for bragging.

[DocAitch]

About a week ago, I was bragging on my Quinetics inertial bullet puller(if you don't know this puller, it has far and away the best chuck of any brand out there- the chuck is metal and basically indestructible-it will last forever).
I had recently discovered a glitch in the loading sequence of my Lee Pro 1000 (when the last case falls from the vertical tube to the case feeder , it sometimes bounces and falls forward. If you don't catch it at this point, it will prevent a complete upward cycle of the ram during bullet seating/crimping. If you have to lower the ram to clear the fallen case, the powder mechanism recycles and double charges the case). When I discovered this, there I was sitting with a pile of reloaded 45 ACP (450+ rounds it turns out) with possibly a few (1-2?) double charges of W231.
I had no choice but to pull all of the bullets and reload the cases. At about the 200th round, the shaft on my Quinetics puller snapped. I had thought it was metal, turns out to be plastic. I can't blame Quinetics, because, after some review of the process, I realized that I had been misusing the tool. Quinetics recommends that the handle be held loosely, not like a hammer, so that the head is free to rebound, thereby allowing Newton's First Law free reign.
Anyway, I was stuck with a broken puller and 250 rounds of ammo that needed disassembly.
I was able to build a handle out of scrap and J&B Weld epoxy that seems to have done the job, I just dissassembled then reloaded another 150 rounds last night. I am now making sure that I hold the handle between thumb and index finger like I was pinching it. It should last until my replacement Quinetics puller gets here.


DocAitch

 

[svana]

Why couldn't you just weigh the rounds to determine which ones were double charged? I feel like the bullet would not have been able to seat properly either.

These are honest questions, I haven't started reloading yet and am just trying to wrap the brain around info.

 

[DocAitch]

Good questions,
The charge was 5.3 gr W231. As with any of the faster powders, a double charge easily fits in the case with room to spare, and the bullets seated easily.
I use mixed brass and even if they are separated and weighed by headstamp, the variation within the brand is greater than 5.3 gr.
With a slower powder such as W296 (in 44 Mag), your points would both be valid. A double charge of one of these powders would both overflow the case and prevent bullet seating and the size of the charge (22-25 gr) could be picked up by weighing.
DocAitch

 

[Sticky]

Nice improv!! Can't live without a bullet puller!

 

[svana]

Good questions,
The charge was 5.3 gr W231. As with any of the faster powders, a double charge easily fits in the case with room to spare, and the bullets seated easily.
I use mixed brass and even if they are separated and weighed by headstamp, the variation within the brand is greater than 5.3 gr.
With a slower powder such as W296 (in 44 Mag), your points would both be valid. A double charge of one of these powders would both overflow the case and prevent bullet seating and the size of the charge (22-25 gr) could be picked up by weighing.
DocAitch

Gotcha. And you're just using different brass because that's what you already had in stock Im assuming?

 

[Sticky]

Many use once fired brass (range pickups) to save on the initial cost of brass. This is often mixed headstamps, so if you buy 1k rds of OF brass, it may have a couple hundred of this, a hundred or so of that brand across several different case mfrs. If you want to load up 500rds, chances are you are going to mix up a couple different types to get that many.

I recently bought 1k rds of once fired brass and it didn't have more than about 3-400 of any one mfr, though they were all large primer pockets (something else you now have to watch with 45acp brass).

As long as you aren't loading max charges, the difference in cases is not enough to really make a big difference unless you are shooting for precision, in which case I get a little more anal about it.. LOL

 

[DocAitch]

What Sticky said.
DocAitch

 

[Mdeng]

In my opinion unless you are trying to load "Match" quality ammo then using mixed head stamped brass really won't hurt your accuracy in the .45 acp cartridge.

Good catch on the possible double charge. That could have been a catastrophic problem.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Now that it's mentioned , I haven't weighed a bunch , but 5 gr variation of case wt within a given brand sounds like a lot. I'll have to check with #1 shooting and handloading partner who has been doing some .45acp development lately , and is highly diligent about case prep.

 

[dj_in_md]

Now that it's mentioned , I haven't weighed a bunch , but 5 gr variation of case wt within a given brand sounds like a lot. I'll have to check with #1 shooting and handloading partner who has been doing some .45acp development lately , and is highly diligent about case prep.

5 grain is only about .3 grams.

 

[dwsjr]

Why couldn't you just weigh the rounds to determine which ones were double charged? I feel like the bullet would not have been able to seat properly either.

These are honest questions, I haven't started reloading yet and am just trying to wrap the brain around info.

+1

 

[Winterborn]

Good catch, better to be safe. I like my rcbs bullet puller that works in the press with a collett. Smooth as butter and no hammering.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

 

[Machodoc]

I'm sitting on a couple of hundred .45 plinker rounds that I need to pull because my powder dispenser stuck open, and I don't know how many (probably very few) are without powder. I tried weighing them, but there's just enough difference in molded WW boolitz, and different mfg. cases, that I can't rely on that alone. I may be out tapping them apart today, since it's not raining or terribly hot out for a change. Sorry 'bout that, Aitch!

 

[DocAitch]

I finished the last 125 last night.
I will try not to repeat that error again, and I'm glad I caught it in time, and didn't discover it by firing off a double charge.
I don't think that the double charge would occur using the lamp chain reset of the powder measure, but I switched to the spring reset because the lamp chain got hung up and broke a couple of times.
My repaired inertial puller held up just fine(250 rounds) and the new one arrived do that I have a spare.
DocAitch

 

[Machodoc]

I can't blame Quinetics, because, after some review of the process, I realized that I had been misusing the tool. Quinetics recommends that the handle be held loosely, not like a hammer, so that the head is free to rebound, thereby allowing Newton's First Law free reign.

As with almost every other reloading tool, there's a bit of technique to using an inertia puller. I use Frankford Arsenal's puller and have good luck with it. Here are some tips:

• Keep in mind that it's not a hammer. The obejective is to have it hit a solid wood surface with a fair amount of speed. I use the flat end of a piece of oak firewood leaning against a table with one end on the ground and the other pointing up.
• The important things are the speed of the puller head when it strikes, and for it to be straight up and down on impact. That gives max efficiency.
• Use your wrist to snap the puller down sharply, then let it pivot between your thumb and index finger when it hits. It should be able to bounce a couple of times against the striking surface.
• When the bullet comes out, you can usually see it and/or hear it. Heavier bullets are usually easier to pull. A lead .45 usually pulls for me in 1-2 strikes. A 9mm in 2-3.
• With the FA puller, once the bullet has come out, I turn the head almost horizontal (a little high on the brass-holding end) while I unscrew the cap. When it opens, I tilt the cap end down a little below horizontal and use my left thumb to push the casing mouth flush with the metal grips of the puller (NOT out of the grips). This puts the primer end of the case back out of the cap, and has the gripper assembly held flush inside the cap. Gravity will hold it in the right place if you let it.
• With my right hand, I tap the open puller on a plastic bowl to knock the powder and bullet into it.
• Holding the cap so that the threaded end is pointed up (open mouth of the case up), I start screwing the cap back onto the puller, turnng it over as it's almost screwed back on.
• You want the cap to be about one turn short of being on tight again, with the empty case still in the grip assembly.
• At this point, the primer end of the case you just emptied is sticking out so that you can grab it and pull it out, and the gripper assembly hasn't been allowed to flop around, turn over, or come apart. If you've ever used one of these, you'll know just what I'm talking about.
• With the cap still about one turn slack, push in the next cartridge to be pulled, and screw the cap down to where it's just making contact. It doesn't have to be tight, or even all that snug. All the pressure is going to be downward and not against the cap.
• If the new cartridge won't go in fairly easily (assuming you've used the puller for a few rounds), loosen the cap a half turn and try again. The cap pulls the three parts of the gripper together, and they have to have room to expand.

I did the .45s that I had questions about today. It turned out that I had just short of 300 of them, and only two didn't have powder. I was able to pull about 3 a minute using the method described above ... not fun, but not too bad. I'll reload them again tonight or tomorrow.

 

[DocAitch]

Machodoc,
I am amazed that you were able to do the 300 rounds with that FA puller. Have they changed the material in the chuck?
I am with you up to a point here, but after the bullet separates, our methods diverge.
The Quinetics puller chuck is designed differently so that all you have to do is loosen the cap 1/4-1/2 turn and upend the puller, dumping the case, powder and bullet into a container (separate these whenever). Also, because the chuck is "hinged", the round should be clamped pretty firmly with the cap.
Much faster than taking the whole cap off, etc.
DocAitch

 

[ArneJ]

Glad you decided to pull them to be safe.

Have you considered a collet bullet puller, like the Hornady or RCBS ones that mount in a reloading press? I have both inertial and collet type pullers and definitely prefer the collet method - less work and way less noise.

 

[Pinecone]

I had an issue with some uncharged 40 rounds.

So I weighed 3 empty, primed cases and bullets, found the heaviest, and set my digital scale to tare (0) at the weight. Then weighed cases and looked for any that were less than 3 grains heavier than the heaviest.

I grouped them from lightest to heaviest in that range, and started pulling from the lightest ones. ALL of the lightest group were not charged. As I moved up, I found less and less not charged. When I got to a group where I pulled 5 in a row with powder, I decided that I was done.

 

[Machodoc]

Machodoc,
I am amazed that you were able to do the 300 rounds with that FA puller. Have they changed the material in the chuck?

DocAitch

The chuck ("gripper assembly") on mine is a three-piece aluminum assembly that's held together with an "O-ring". The puller comes with three of these, each in a different size. The shaft is aluminum. The rest is high-impact plastic. The grippers are flimsy when they are not mounted in the puller itself, and prone to come apart, but when they are mounted in the puller, they are very stable. My technique is for that particular type of puller, but I've found that it works well for that one.

Unscrewing the cap isn't all that hard. It's 5 partial turns as I twist it. The whole process is rather mindless labor anyway, but the pile of cartridges usually dwindles fast enough. I tend to put my flawed cases into a special container when I'm reloading, then deal with those all at one time when I get around to it. In such cases, I typically will have accumulated about 10-20 rounds that need to be pulled, so unscrewing the cap that many times isn't a big deal.

[Added note: I just got through doing a favor for a friend that involved pulling half a box of .25 ACP cartridges. With a bullet that light, it's a real workout! It was taking an average of 10-12 whacks to dislodge each round, with one of them taking 22 strikes. There's just not much inertial force with a 50 gr bullet!]

 

[ratcheting hammer]

You may want to call Lee and inform them of your experience. Their tech support has been great when I have had any questions about their products. Collet puller as a back up.