What is required to own a machine gun?

[DD214]

Um, I think you mean nationals. If we are there, we are the foreigners and if they are here they are foreigners, but if they are there where they are from, they are nationals.

Actually they would still be foreigners, since most of the insurgents are from Iran/Syria . At least the ones my friends shot anyway .

 

[novus collectus]

Actually they would still be foreigners, since most of the insurgents are from Iran/Syria . At least the ones my friends shot anyway .

Actually those would be belligerents, terrorists, subversives, subverters, irregulars, etc. They can all be foreigners or nationals.

Insurgents, rebels, revolutionairies and insurectionists are people fighting against their own government and are therefore "nationals".

 

[DD214]

Actually those would be belligerents, terrorists, subversives, subverters, irregulars, etc. They can all be foreigners or nationals.

Insurgents, rebels, revolutionairies and insurectionists are people fighting against their own government and are therefore "nationals".

Okay, how about "meaty targets"? That would pretty much cover it. Geez, I spend too much time around war vets...

 

[AKbythebay]

I know of an organization that would be glad to give you one, put you on a plane to far away exotic places, and instruct you to shoot it at foreigners. And on top of that, they will pay you to do it! If you are interested, let me know and I'll send you a link.

Nah, they don't want old fat guys like me.

 

[E.Shell]

Aww hell, one could theoretically rent a boat, export with a proper fed form a semi auto firearm, go out about fifteen miles to international waters, convert it to full auto, fire it for a few hours, convert it back to its oritional semi auto configuration and then bring it back into the US with the proper form as I understand how it might go.
A whole lot easier than a five or seven year commitment in the forces.

Although I realize your heart is pure, you would actually have to at least be guilty of a thought crime (**intent** to construct an illegal machine gun) to do this:

1) Simply by possessing the full auto fire control parts while also possessing an AR-15 is, according to BATFE "rulings", "intent" and a punishable offense.

2) Owning an AR-15 with a hole for the sear pin is also a punishable offense and just drilling the hole converts an AR lower into an M-16 lower and constitutes slightly more than "intent", though it's not FA w/o F/A parts. This was actually legal prior to '86 with a tax stamp, not it's not.

3) Even going the DIAS route requires possession of an unregistered DIAS, definitely a no-no.

 

[novus collectus]

Although I realize your heart is pure, you would actually have to at least be guilty of a thought crime (**intent** to construct an illegal machine gun) to do this:

1) Simply by possessing the full auto fire control parts while also possessing an AR-15 is, according to BATFE "rulings", "intent" and a punishable offense.

2) Owning an AR-15 with a hole for the sear pin is also a punishable offense and just drilling the hole converts an AR lower into an M-16 lower and constitutes slightly more than "intent", though it's not FA w/o F/A parts. This was actually legal prior to '86 with a tax stamp, not it's not.

3) Even going the DIAS route requires possession of an unregistered DIAS, definitely a no-no.

Thought of all that:

1) Two boats with the rifle on one and the parts on the other. The two are never together until in international waters.

2) Drill the hole when in international waters and don't bring it back. No law broken, therefore no intent.

3) Not sure what a DIAS is. But machine guns have to be registered within the US. Outside the US we can have and possess full auto and it doesn't have to be registered unless imported to the US.

 

[VNVGUNNER]

Drop In Auto Sear
DIAS

 

[AKbythebay]

Or you could just take a vacation to Vietnam and shoot all the machine guns you want

 

[novus collectus]

Or you could just take a vacation to Vietnam and shoot all the machine guns you want

Or Serbia http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/Livinghistory.pdf
This is what you get to fire:

I. Pistols
1. Serbian pistols cal. 7.62 x 25mm and 9mm.
2. Scorpion machine pistol cal. 32 ACP
II. Rifles
3. Rifle M-24/47 cal. 7.9mm
4. Rifle M-48 cal. 7.9mm
5. Rifle SKS M-59 cal. 7.62 x 39mm
6. Rifle SKS M-59/66 cal. 7.62 x 39mm
III. Sub Machine Guns
7. M-56 cal. 7,62 x 25mm
8. M-41 Shpagin cal. 7.62 x 25mm
9. MP-40 cal. 9mm
10. AK 47 ( Yugoslavian made) cal. 7.62 x 39mm
11. Sten cal. 9mm
IV. Machineguns
12. M-53 cal. 7,9mm with and without tripod
13. M-84 (PKM) cal. 7.62 x 54R
14. Browning M2HB cal. 50
15. DSHK Russian cal. 12.7 x 108mm
16. KPVT Russian cal. 14.5mm
V. AA Cannons
17. M-55 three barreled canon cal. 20mm Hispano
18. Oerlikon single canon cal. 20mm
19. M-39 cal. 37mm Russian
20. Bofors L/70 cal. 40mm
21. 57mm US cannon
VI. Rockets M-80 cal. 64mm RPG18 (Yugoslavian Bazooka)
VII. Automatic Grenade Launcher BGA-30mm
VIII. Rifle Grenades with Bullet Trap
IX. Under Barrel Grenade Launcher 40mm Russian (Kastyor)

Anyone got $10,000 I can borrow?

 

[SigMatt]

Although I realize your heart is pure, you would actually have to at least be guilty of a thought crime (**intent** to construct an illegal machine gun) to do this:

1) Simply by possessing the full auto fire control parts while also possessing an AR-15 is, according to BATFE "rulings", "intent" and a punishable offense.

2) Owning an AR-15 with a hole for the sear pin is also a punishable offense and just drilling the hole converts an AR lower into an M-16 lower and constitutes slightly more than "intent", though it's not FA w/o F/A parts. This was actually legal prior to '86 with a tax stamp, not it's not.

3) Even going the DIAS route requires possession of an unregistered DIAS, definitely a no-no.

The Thompson Center ruling weakens "constructive possession" a bit. The possession of the parts that could be used to construct an NFA firearm are not necessarily sufficient to prove intent. Having the parts themselves in the absence of actual assembly no longer qualifies as sufficient evidence that you are guilty of possession of an unregistered NFA firearm. You have to actual put the parts together.

This applies to the possible assembly of an SBR but also can apply to the assembly of an illegal machine gun. Personally, I wouldn't dare attempt to tangle with the BATFE on that.

I despise "constructive possession". Having some of the bits that could become a machine gun doesn't make them so. In fact, under the BATFE's interpretation, if you own a piece of steel pipe 18 inches long with an OD 1 1/2" and ID of 1 3/8" and a Sten parts kit, you are guilty of possessing an unregistered machine gun. Even if you never cut or drill the pipe. You might be able to use the TC ruling as an affirmative defense but it is better to avoid it in the first place.

Always check the bolt carriers you are looking at when trolling through parts trays at shows. You don't want to come home with an M-16 carrier vs. an AR-15 carrier. The M-16 carrier will function just fine in an AR except now you're guilty of assembling an illegal machine gun.

There is nothing illegal about possessing NFA parts as long as their semi-auto equivalents are not present. I'm in that situation now. I have two FAL parts kits and I am waiting on a DSA receiver. Before I can bring the receiver home, I have to disassemble and dispose of parts in the lower receivers in the kits just to make sure there is no possible machine gun parts around. I haven't checked to see if the lowers have the FA sear but the selectors are FA and do move into that position. Not a machine gun since it is a parts kit and I have no semi-auto parts around. I may be wrong on that but I am playing it better safe that sorry. The receiver doesn't come home until I have US compliance parts and semi-auto FCG parts only.

Matt

 

[JeepDriver]

3) Not sure what a DIAS is. But machine guns have to be registered within the US. Outside the US we can have and possess full auto and it doesn't have to be registered unless imported to the US.

M16 Registered Drop In Auto Sear

This one was bought a few years ago for $8,000. They are around $12,000-14,000 currently.

Ironically, a registered receiver M16 (non-Colt) can be had for $9,000-11,000.

 

[Cadet08]

Insted of going through all of the required paper work, why not just bump fire the weapon insted.

 

[novus collectus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfwFP_RwTQ

(Warning: As far as I know the use of a rubber band has not been determined by the ATF to be legal bump firing like other methods. Do at your own peril.)

 

[trbon8r]

The prices for a registered DIAS are just crazy. 10 grand + for what is really nothing more than 2 bucks worth of metal. What happens when you write a 5 figure check for a DIAS and it breaks?

 

[novus collectus]

The prices for a registered DIAS are just crazy. 10 grand + for what is really nothing more than 2 bucks worth of metal. What happens when you write a 5 figure check for a DIAS and it breaks?

I think I read somewhere you can have it reforged by an SOT manufacturer as long as they put the same serial number back on it.

 

[JeepDriver]

The prices for a registered DIAS are just crazy. 10 grand + for what is really nothing more than 2 bucks worth of metal. What happens when you write a 5 figure check for a DIAS and it breaks?

There is a fine line between repair and replacement.

 

[bmdmc]

I know of an organization that would be glad to give you one, put you on a plane to far away exotic places, and instruct you to shoot it at foreigners. And on top of that, they will pay you to do it! If you are interested, let me know and I'll send you a link.

ROFLOL, I know of at least 3.

Bernie