What to shoot out of shotgun

[lazarus]

If you want to practice, around here and in most parts one of the better ways I think is grab a box of #7.5 target shells and head to your closest trap range and have at it. Teaches you to be fairly quick and reasonably accurate and lots of practice racking the slide. Also get a couple of snap caps so you can practice quickly racking the slide.

I'd use reduced recoil 00 or #4. Still has enough energy to penetrate in to the vitals, but might be lower enough that if it goes through a wall or two first it might not be as deadly to a person it hits. ANYTHING that is lethal on impact is going to still be lethal after going through one or two interior walls or an interior door (non-solid wood), but you can still reduce the lethality on obstruction penetration or give some indoor obstructions a realistic chance of stopping them.

I've got 3 kids and a wife who could all potentially be behind something. I actually prefer #2 bird shot. It isn't likely to be immediately lethal, but I can pretty much guarantee you are going to have a bad day and possibly a shortened one if you get hit with #2 steel shot from a 3" shell at 15ft. Especially if you take the entire shell.

Where as someone hit with it behind a wall really might only get superficial wounds. If I had almost no time I'd thumb 00 in the gun. If I thought I had an extra couple of seconds I'd stick a #2 birdshot shell in the chamber and 4 00 in the tube.

What I'd really like though is a .38sp revolver. I'd worry a lot less about over penetration if I also knew I was a lot more likely to only hit what I was shooting at and a .38sp is unlikely to over penetrate a person or if it did to have much energy after passing through (which isn't the case with a 9mm, .40, .45 etc)

 

[lazarus]

One other perk of reduced recoils rounds, actually two, even for a large man, it is faster to get a shotgun back on target with less recoil. I can put 5 through my 12ga 870 with a 28" barrel (which is going to recoil less than a short barrel HD shotgun) in a little under 5 seconds with something like like target shells. With reduced recoil 00 about the same, with full recoil 00 it is about 6 seconds and slugs or magnum 00 it is about 7 seconds. Just takes longer to get back on target and be sure if your shot when it is shoving you harder.

Indoors a further perk is because there is less powder in the shell, the blast indoors isn't as loud. Try firing a 2 3/4" slug without hearing protection outdoors out of an 18" barrel shotgun and I'd bet your ears are going to ring for a few seconds if you have no hearing protection. Inside it is 10x worse. It'll possibly even be disorienting for you. Less muzzle flash possibly blinding you as well (if in the dark).

This is also all part of the reason I am really thinking a .38sp. Partly I just want to justify it because I really want one and it makes a cheap range date, but it is also massively quieter indoors, with a tiny muzzle blast and flash and an extra round over my 870. Also easier to maneuver. Of course possibly less likely to hit and also much less damage.

 

[Vile Shadow]

That ain't what crazy Uncle Joe Biden said

The difference is Biden's got a balcony. That way the two blasts will scare 'em away before they even approach yer house.

 

[highli99]

I just found out that Rhodesian Jungle Rounds are a thing. They are combo buck shot and bird shot. I need to watch you tube before I use any for home defense.

Wax slugs with bird shot seem to have great ballistics but I have never made them and don't know what this group thinks of the idea.

 

[Matlack]

You are wasting your time with a shotgun for home defense. All you need is 911 on speed dial and maybe a rape whistle.

Or wet yourself. Supposedly it will disgust your attacker and they will run away.

 

[G29guy]

One other perk of reduced recoils rounds, actually two, even for a large man, it is faster to get a shotgun back on target with less recoil. I can put 5 through my 12ga 870 with a 28" barrel (which is going to recoil less than a short barrel HD shotgun) in a little under 5 seconds with something like like target shells. With reduced recoil 00 about the same, with full recoil 00 it is about 6 seconds and slugs or magnum 00 it is about 7 seconds. Just takes longer to get back on target and be sure if your shot when it is shoving you harder.

Indoors a further perk is because there is less powder in the shell, the blast indoors isn't as loud. Try firing a 2 3/4" slug without hearing protection outdoors out of an 18" barrel shotgun and I'd bet your ears are going to ring for a few seconds if you have no hearing protection. Inside it is 10x worse. It'll possibly even be disorienting for you. Less muzzle flash possibly blinding you as well (if in the dark).

This is also all part of the reason I am really thinking a .38sp. Partly I just want to justify it because I really want one and it makes a cheap range date, but it is also massively quieter indoors, with a tiny muzzle blast and flash and an extra round over my 870. Also easier to maneuver. Of course possibly less likely to hit and also much less damage.

You're "argument" if you will sucks...however you have set yourself up for a successful argument that you need to buy a suppressor...

 

[lazarus]

I certainly won't argue that supressors should be legal without paperwork or a tax stamp. Over the counter, just like Tylenol.

 

[Major Major]

I bought a big ol 250 rd box of Herters cheep 00 buckshot for my 870. Cycles great at tight groups at defensive ranges. It will leave a real mark on steel plate at the club--rings it like a gong . I was training my son and his friend a bit and saw the newbie miss the target with buckshot even with me standing with a hand on his shoulder. no matter what shot goes in the pipe, at closer ranges like 25 feet you can clean miss someone if you aren't aiming.

 

[Vile Shadow]

I certainly won't argue that supressors should be legal without paperwork or a tax stamp. Over the counter, just like Tylenol.

Yes, they oughta be cash-and-carry fer anyone who ain't prohibited from ownin' a gun.

Folks should have the right to be able to defend their homes and families without goin' deaf.

 

[sxs]

The difference is Biden's got a balcony. That way the two blasts will scare 'em away before they even approach yer house.

Yeah, but he also said you could shoot right through the door. Wonder if he will get sued by the family of someone shot that way (since it's blatently illegal in most situations).

 

[smokey]

I just found out that Rhodesian Jungle Rounds are a thing. They are combo buck shot and bird shot. I need to watch you tube before I use any for home defense.

Wax slugs with bird shot seem to have great ballistics but I have never made them and don't know what this group thinks of the idea.

They don't really have great ballistics when you look at gel tests. They still fail to penetrate adequately.


A shotgun is cool because it give the user more options than just about any other firearm. As such, it's also one of the most complex systems to learn about and use. When just looking at defensive shot loads and ignoring everything else, you've got complete control over penetration depth of the projectiles depending on their diameter.

Penetration control-
Basically at one end you've got birdshot and at the other end you've got 0000 buck. The larger the diameter of the pellets, the more momentum each one has, so the more they will penetrate, the less they'll deflect, and the less cross-sectional area the entire shot load will have(bigger spheres in a given volume means more air space in between, so less efficient packing).

When you're looking at penetrating into a person for defense, you know how far you need the projectile to go (from all that terminal ballistics work the FBI has done). Using ballistics gel as a standard, the projectile will need to reliably penetrate to 12-16". Understanding that skin represents about 4" of ballistics gel, clothing can further reduce penetration, and a lot of important structures are protected by a layer of bone(ribs/skull/vertebrae...etc), it's better to favor the 16" penetration depth than the 12".

So knowing that, what diameter shot reliably penetrates to that depth without overpenetrating too far. You're looking at #1 and up for shot size, especially in a low-recoil shell at ~1,200 fps. If you go above 00, you're going to run into overpenetration issues and the loads have less cross-sectional area. #1buck is the best solution that crushes the most tissue while penetrating to the needed depth.

Flight characteristics-
Now knowing you're going to use #1 buck or 00, what loads perform the best? Federal's flitecontrol wad generally has the best reputation here for tight patterns. A tight pattern allows you to place more shot on the target you want to hit, with less shot passing by off into the background somewhere. It also allows you to engage things further out before needing to change over to slugs (patterning your shotgun, you should know when "too many" projectiles are missing and you need to switch over).

If you can't find federal's loadings, hornady also uses the same wad for their defensive loads, so you can just pick those up.

Slugs-
Slugs are basically giant handgun projectiles, and as such control penetration through deforming. When they deform, their cross-sectional diameter expands and the increase in drag stops them at a given depth. Some swell out to big doughnuts, others mushroom similar to handgun rounds, and others are pre-segmented to break into 3 or more parts.

Rifled slugs(foster type) generally deform into doughnut shapes or fragment. Brenneke's mushroom. Both of these are designed for smooth-bores and stabilize like a shuttlecock with lots of concentrated mass up front and a lighter tail behind. If they yaw, the tail will be pushed back behind the front by air resistance.

We're lucky to have lots of options appropriate for defensive use now. By that, I mean they'll stop within 18" or so. Slugs punch a clean hole through barriers pretty well, so they're good for shooting a badguy through a couch or wall...that characteristic may also be a downside depending on your situation. If they hit soft tissue though, they'll often overpenetrate less than 00.

They do make precise shots easier, don't deflect like shot does(helping you control the background they go into if you DO miss), and negate the need to change over at distance.

I've had good luck with brenneke and federal's truball for being the most accurate slugs out of my modified 18" 870 barrel.

Sabot slugs are designed to spin-stabilize out of a rifled barrel, but can be pretty accurate and give you neat designs that reallllllly mimic handgun bullets such as the pdx1's and DPX's.

 

[Roadhawg]

12ga Nobel Sport Centurion, 2.75", Multi Buck and Ball