Who can teach HQL and Wear/Carry courses required by MSP?

[pablovox]

I have my Pistol Instructor certification.
I'm registered with MSP as a certified instructor.
Have received a couple calls about teaching the 16hr course for wear/carry permit.

Still a little confused as to what I can teach.

Can I teach for both the HQL (4hr) and Wear/Carry (16hr) requirements?

Thanks in advance
Paul

 

[TTMD]

Can I teach for both the HQL (4hr) and Wear/Carry (16hr) requirements?

Thanks in advanceadvancePaulPaul

Currently, according to an email I received from CPL Quirk of the MSP, Certified and Licensed QHI's may both teach the 4 hr HQL, the 16 hr Wear & Carry, the 16 hr security guard training, and the 8-hr renewals for both of the longer courses.

A person receives a Qualified Handgun Instructor Certificate (QHIC, previously referred to by the MSP as a "Registered QHI") by applying to MSP using your NRA cert inst card. The Qualified Handgun Instructor License (QHIL, previously referred to by the MSP as a "Certified QHI") is acquired by applying to MSP with your NRA cert inst card, and a license application that includes police practical shooting course score, and instructor signature w/ whole thing notarized.

 

[pablovox]

TTMD...you just confirmed what I just learned. Spoke to Cpl. Quirk an hour ago and he stated the same...CAN TEACH the HQL & Wear/Carry courses.

Thanks for your info!

 

[miles71]

However is there any guidelines on what must be taught in all of these courses?
TD

 

[CypherPunk]

Yes.
Read The Firearm Safety Act of 2013, the Code of Maryland Regulations, and the Licensing Division Advisory 2013-01.

 

[mcbruzdzinski]

Yes.
Read The Firearm Safety Act of 2013, the Code of Maryland Regulations, and the Licensing Division Advisory 2013-01.

Good advice!

 

[miles71]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypherPunk
Yes.
Read The Firearm Safety Act of 2013, the Code of Maryland Regulations, and the Licensing Division Advisory 2013-01.

Good advice!

I agree and have read it. Be interesting.....................

TD

 

[parbreak]

I think the FIRST pre-requisite to teaching the Wear and Carry Class is that the instructor should have a Maryland Handgun Permit. Just my 2 cents.

 

[parbreak]

I mentioned nothing about "process related" training. I think it is important to inject some real life experience into the classroom.

 

[miles71]

Anyone else notice one of the exceptions from the training for the wear and carry permit is MSP qualified handgun instructors?

Posses some interesting questions ..........

Here's my thought, if the MSP trusts you enough to teach the course they should also feel you are qualified to have what the class qualifies you for.

TD

 

[parbreak]

I didn't miss your point. I have no problems with people coming out of the woodwork to become "instructors" all of the sudden. Where were you all for all these years?? What my issue is allowing someone with NO carry experience in the state of Maryland to teach someone that is going to carry.

The MSP can make whatever rules they want, but I would be very hesitant to sign off on someone that is going to wear and carry a handgun in Maryland if I didn't also have that same experience and credentials. I think it could come back to bite the instructor in the ass in a court of law if called in.

Kind of like if I wanted to learn to fly I'm pretty sure I would take flight lessons from a pilot and not a flight attendant. Both are on airplanes everyday and both know a lot about airplane safety, etc., but I'm taking them from someone who actually sits in the cockpit.

Again, just the 2 cents of someone who carries everyday and teaches 100's of students every year.

 

[TTMD]

Where I've been is not relevant to this discussion, and you trying to make this personal, along with your lack for reasonable consideration of alternate opinions, means that my participation in this thread is over.

 

[woodstock]

in reading this, and as a licensed to carry/ license to teach instructor, i can tell you i have WAY to many holsters and accessories i will never use. this collection is from trial and error. the price i paid for all that stuff is what i consider a stupidity fee. if i can help someone save a bunch of money on sound concealment rigs at affordable prices and help the adaptability of certain applications to the wearer due to practicality of intended purpose, i can understand what "parbreak" is indicating.

i know other OUTSTANDING instructors who aren't permitted. their level of expertise is class A/ %120 and i have learned much from them. that being said, the nuances of carrying on your person sometimes up to 10 hours a day, can offer some interesting scenarios.

from what i have learned in life, experience counts.

Where I've been is not relevant to this discussion, and you trying to make this personal, along with your lack for reasonable consideration of alternate opinions, means that my participation in this thread is over.

 

[miles71]

My post was not to say no permit must mean you are not a good instructor. I have been an educator for 17 years, I can tell you from experience some really great teachers are not great "performers" in what they do. Much like coaches who are not great athletes.

My point was to say maybe being a MSPQI would be considered g&s reason for a permit, as you re teaching the course to obtain a permit.

Personally, I also would feel uncomfortable taking a course from someone with little to no experience, but I am not a beginner or looking for my first permit. One the other hand I don't think you need to be a SWAT veteran to be a good instructor, as a matter of fact several of the courses I have taken from instructors with a great deal of military or Leo background have not been the best. They had a hard time breaking out of that mentality and teaching to us civilians.

When I got my NRA instructor cert. we had a very diverse class of backgrounds. It was great to be able to hear from so many different approaches to training. We came to the consensus the perfect set of instructors for almost any class would be three people, one with military experience, one with Leo experience, and one who was an experienced civilian. This way anyone in the class could relate to an instructor.

Sorry for the not post, guess I got on a roll, TD

 

[britishjohnhall]

I am in agreement with several folks here. If you don't carry, your not qualified to teach the CARRY/conceal classes. If you aren't a pilot you shouldn't teach flying lessons. I would love to teach carry/conceal classes, but I don't have a G&S reason to carry, so I won't teach the classes.
Think of it like this...
The first class you offer a student asks a question like this; "what is a better belt position for your firearm? Closer to the front of the body, or more rearward closer to the spine?....(again I don't carry conceal so I don't even know if this is a legitimate question).
You can't answer this unless you carry regularly and have experience in trying different positions. If you can't answer this from experience, then your credibility is out the window. Your students won't really value anything else you say cause you don't have the experience.

 

[britishjohnhall]

As far as the HQLI being a G&S?

It's a mute point. Maryland and all other states should be 'shall issue' anyway!

Getting a license (HQL) to exercise a constitutional right is wrong anyway.

 

[miles71]

I agree with the fact a teacher should have experience in what they teach. Having a permit doesn't really prove a level of proficiency in carrying a gun, just that you have experience. In other subjects a teacher needs to be proficient. One of my peeves is music teachers who have not performed music in years, how can they know what it's like to teach the kids. They don't need to be performing every weekend and cutting albums, but at least need to be proficient.

As a music educator I make an effort to perform regularly with good musicians, often picking their brain and discussing their experiences. As a pistol instructor I try to do the same, qualifying with my local police (I'm lucky enough to have the opportunity) and shooting with Leo friends, and keeping up all of my permits and certifications. I am not Leo or military so I don't feel like I can teach clearing a house or tactical tactics, but I can teach how to shoot safely and ccw.

To end another post that is to long on this subject, what worries me the most is the vast variety of standards from the MSP on all of this. In education everyone gets at least a curriculum and has to have a minimum amount of training. Seems like the training is there but the class can be so different from every instructor. It really needs to be done more Nra style in which everyone gets a written lesson script to follow and they can add their own materials to the minimum. Every class should have the same basic framework so across the state all students get the same information.

Not sure why I am so talkative of this one, I'll go watch tv now.
TD

 

[Kinbote]

Most normal states require nothing at all to carry concealed, such as AZ and Vermont, or require very little, a quick form to fill out and 15 bucks for a license. Those states are not experiencing great difficulties due to CCW holders being overwhelmed by the complexity of walking around with handguns on their hips.

Learning to carry a concealed weapon is more akin to learning to correctly buy running shoe. It's a matter of fitting the shoe to the individual, and it doesn't hurt to know about pronation and supination, but on the other hand, you can go to the store, buy shoes and go running without an expert to teach you.

It's true that md is more heavily-burdened with petty bureaucracies, miserable petty martinets and sad little despots, so someone carrying concealed is well-advised to be hyper-vigilant, and more wary of cops than robbers, but it doesn't take hours of instruction to convey that mindset, nor does it take any sort of "experience".

Claiming that only someone with a md cc license is more qualified to teach a class on CCW is like claiming only a 300lb person can teach another 300lb person how to carry a weapon, since only someone of that body type has "experience" in doing so. Or only a woman can teach another woman, or only someone with arthritis can teach someone similarly afflicted. It's nonsense. That sort of attitude is very reminiscent of Dick Metcalf's infamous screed.

 

[CypherPunk]

I have heard from more than a few people that they are being told that only MSP LICENSED instructors are qulaified to provide the training required by law to apply for or renew a Maryland Handgun Permit.

While I may agree, in principal, that only those who have had training and practice carrying and drawing from a holster should be offering instruction in those skills, the law is clear.

Here, for your review are the applicable portions of the Governor's Firearm Safety Act of 2013.

(E) "QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTOR" HAS THE MEANING STATED IN § 5–101 OF THIS TITLE.

"QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTOR" MEANS A CERTIFIED FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR WHO:
(1) IS RECOGNIZED BY THE MARYLAND POLICE AND CORRECTIONAL TRAINING COMMISSIONS;
(2) HAS A QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTOR LICENSE ISSUED BY THE SECRETARY; OR
(3) HAS A CERTIFICATION ISSUED AND RECOGNIZED BY A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION

...(5) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN SUBSECTION (B) OF THIS SECTION, HAS SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETED PRIOR TO APPLICATION AND EACH RENEWAL, A FIREARMS TRAINING COURSE APPROVED BY THE SECRETARY THAT INCLUDES:
(I) 1. FOR AN INITIAL APPLICATION, A MINIMUM OF 16 HOURS OF INSTRUCTION BY A QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTOR; OR
2. FOR A RENEWAL APPLICATION, 8 HOURS OF INSTRUCTION BY A QUALIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTOR;...


Although it is no inconceivable that the MSP would incorrectly interperet a black and white law, I think the text above speaks for itself.

 

[mtnwisdom]

A QHI is a QHI.

The only difference is how you arrive.

Neither one is 'better' than the other. The quality of the instructor/instruction is in no way related to the 'C' vs 'L'.