Will a primer go off no matter how slow the deformation?

[Bede5man]

OK, If I take an empty, but primed rifle case and put it in a vise, and hit the primer with a center punch and hammer, it'll go off. No problem. A rifle firing pin moves fast.

Soooo.......if I take the same primed casing and put it in a hydraulic press (like for bearings) and sloooowly indent the primer to the same point of deformation, will it fire? Will it just crumble the pellet?

(I am assuming regular lead styphnate primer, here...)

I'd test it, but have no way of slowly pushing the primer in a controlled manner without making something, which I don't feel like doing, at least not right now.


Is it the deformation, or the shock that fires the primer???

 

[lx1x]

Depending ..if there is enough pressure between the cup and anvil inside the primer. It may detonate.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I'm going with a fast, hard, strike.

But it would be fun to go in the shop and find out for sure.

 

[ted76]

A friend of mine wanted to make some dummy loaded rounds once. He thought that he could just heat a live primer that was inserted into a empty brass case and it would just set the primer off and then he would load a bullet and have his dummy round. When he heated the primer, it detonated and shot out of the case and lodged under his skin. so be carful trying to set off primers outside of a firearm chamber. I have heard that oil will neutralize a primer, but have never tried it.

 

[Jerry M]

OK, If I take an empty, but primed rifle case and put it in a vise, and hit the primer with a center punch and hammer, it'll go off...:

Taking with the explosion, the part of your finger holding the center punch!!!

 

[lx1x]

A friend of mine wanted to make some dummy loaded rounds once. He thought that he could just heat a live primer that was inserted into a empty brass case and it would just set the primer off and then he would load a bullet and have his dummy round. When he heated the primer, it detonated and shot out of the case and lodged under his skin. so be carful trying to set off primers outside of a firearm chamber. I have heard that oil will neutralize a primer, but have never tried it.

Oil works.. as long it penetrates the primer compound .

 

[Welder84]

I was told to never ever play with primers. I think that is good advice.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Definitely a, Hold My Beer, undertaking.

 

[montoya32]

I would think the compound would have time to move away from the deformation and not go off.

 

[Sharp]

This sounds like a Demolition Ranch kind of question.

I think with a firing pin sized implement, the primer would deform and nothing would happen. With a larger surface area though, it sounds possible.

 

[Bede5man]

The anvil would support the pellet so it couldn't move away.

When I was much younger I put an empty 50 BMG case in a vise, horizontally, and hit the primer with a center punch.

It was quite loud indoors. But the primer stayed right where it was in the case. Guess my punch was SuperBad.

 

[Half-cocked]

Ask these guys to try it out!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcMDMoNu66_1Hwi5-MeiQgw

 

[jjones88]

That's a good question... my latest data set on my current CZ-26 build is showing me that if my striker is not moving fast enough it does not set off the primer. There is enough drag within the tube to slow the striker down and this is causing the primer to not go off.

 

[ironpony]

I'll would try putting one in a vice today but I am sure this has already been attempted and some one will chime in. I swear one went off in my vacuum cleaner one day!

 

[ken792]

If crushed slowly enough, it won't detonate. The primer ignites by heat from the friction of the particles getting crushed together. If crushed slowly enough, there won't be enough heat buildup.

When I was younger, I also set off quite a few surplus primed cases with a center punch and a vise. There was quite a difference in how much force they had. Soviet 7.62x54R from the 60's just kind of fizzled, and the indentation in the primer cup looked like a dud would. Oddly enough, that ammo fired reliably. Austrian .30/06 (Berdan primed) went off with a lot of force. The cup would blow out of the primer pocket, cover half the case with soot, and back into the center punch quite a ways.

 

[alucard0822]

Pressure sensitive explosive have a critical pressure required that essentially compresses and heats the compound enough to start the reaction. A firing pin hit on a tiny .050" diameter pin is somewhere around an amazing 30,000psi IIRC, the whole mass X velocity and force/area thing. Figure a SP primer is only .175" in diameter, so to crush the entire primer to 30K psi with only .024sq.in of area, would take just shy of 750lbs, although not all firearms hit with the same force, and not all pins are the same area, so could be more or less weight, and a slow crush will bring things like elasticity into play where a fast hit from a pin doesn't allow the compound to squeeze out of the way to avoid taking the force. There used to be a mil-spec primer test where a 4oz ball was dropped onto a firing pin, a primer failed if it ignited when the ball was dropped from 3", or didn't light when dropped from 20"

 

[ras_oscar]

What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[campns]

ammonia is a great neutralizer for primers

 

[HawaiiMark]

Are you trying to make dummy or inert rounds?

Why not put the empty casing in the gun without a bullet, and then fire it. Probably best to insert directly into the breach. This will detonate the primer and give you a visibly inert casing so you can reinsert the bullet and have a dummy round.

 

[jimbobborg]

Certain guns have problems detonating certain primers as they can't hit the primer hard enough to set it off. Usually this involves a very tuned revolver and CCI primers.