Zimmerman Trial: Tired of media bias? See gun-friendly legal coverage

[Indiana Jones]

Sounds like the Sellier and Bellot performed pretty well. Might have to try some. I have the 00buck rounds they sell. Good stuff.

Interesting links Andrew, thanks.

Question: What would you like to see from the defense this week, as far as gaining ground. Any strategies you personally think would be good?

 

[Kartel]

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

 

[Indiana Jones]

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

Facts are stubborn things. Please read up on them and find a different thread to be stupid in, this is a thread for Andrew to keep up fact checkers in the loop, not to debate about how evil Zimmerman is for hurting "baby tray-von".

 

[Inigoes]

Can they actually change the charge mid-trial, or is this a plea bargain ploy ? While, as you describe the 'mansalughter' burden of proof' ...

... why wouldn't they have done that from the beginning ? Do they have some other 'undisclosed' bargaining chip ? This almost seems unethical on their part. Could this possibly be a way of setting Zimmerman up for the civil suit that will surely follow ... and an even lesser burden of proof ?

That is pretty f'd up to change the charge midstream (if it were permissible), showing the state is purely looking for a conviction based on political pressure.

At this point the prosecution only wants a win at any cost.

 

[MDFF2008]

Lesser included charges are permitted.

 

[DC-W]

That is pretty f'd up to change the charge midstream (if it were permissible), showing the state is purely looking for a conviction based on political pressure.

At this point the prosecution only wants a win at any cost.

There's gotta be a backlash for all of this. The State's "star witness" was very clearly coerced into making the statements that she did.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Let's face it folks, rioting is fairly predictable either way. Either in celebration or protest, rioting can be a fun and exciting break from the monotony of the ghetto. I'd bet a fair number of potential rioters won't even know what its all about aside from "Ima burn me down some crackas".

At least a fair trail would allow us to take away something useful. If GZ deserves a conviction based on the evidence then so be it. I just haven't heard or seen anything to support it, and I don't want to think about the 2A setback a political conviction would cause.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[EL1227]

Hmmm ...

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

Yet another 'newbie' member with an odd slant on the facts.

 

[EL1227]

IANAL, but ...

Lesser included charges are permitted.

Was manslaughter an 'included charge' ? I missed that if it was, and if so, how can you be charged with both it and 2nd degree murder simultaneously ?

 

[Tyeraxus]

Was manslaughter an 'included charge' ? I missed that if it was, and if so, how can you be charged with both it and 2nd degree murder simultaneously ?

IANAL, but it's my understanding that a Murder 2 charge includes the elements of Manslaughter by law in Florida (and some other states as well) - that is, Murder 2 IS Manslaughter with some added stuff (the "depraved mind" we keep hearing about, among others). So the jury could conceivably find that the core Manslaughter elements were proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but not those extra elements, and therefore convict on Manslaughter but not Murder.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

I love how Martin's Family/Martin's Lawyer came out on Friday and said the trial was in no way, shape, or form racially motivated. Have those people forgotten about the hundreds of hours of video tape? Rev Al, Rev Jesse, all manner of Political Official, NAA(S)CP's Jealous, And all the others that came out of the woodshed for this Dog and Pony show? The best Polical Figure line was: "Trayvon was hunted down like a rabid dog".

This new event only came about because Racial Jeantel started talking about Creep-Ass-Crackers. That and the fact that their entire Railroading Scheme is being "Derailed".

They over charged the Z-Man. At this point, they'll take any conviction they can get.

I need to go to the store and stock up on more Pop-Secret. Come on 9am Monday.

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

CNN has NO shame. I can't even talk to anyone about the trial who is getting their news from the MSM. They have no idea what the actual testimony has been, and no clue about the apparent complete lack of evidence to support State's charges.

Indeed. If the truth prevails, George Zimmerman is acquitted, and there are riots resulting in death, it will be the main stream media, not Zimmerman, who will have blood on their hands. By painting a false picture of GZ's imminent guilt the media is setting up conditions for a bloodletting. This is another one of those times I hope to be dead wrong.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

Are you kidding? He was being followed by a Creepy-Ass-Cracker. Do you have any idea how evil and dangerous they are? They're like Super Zombies. When one identifies a Creepy-Ass-Cracker, one must run away as fast as possible.

Sorry, Sport, but (IMESHO) Martin turned around and confronted Zimmerman. Making Martin the antagonist at that point. The autopsy/ballistics reports will tell us a lot. Distance of the shot. Angle of the shot. Etc... If there was an exit wound and that bullet was not burried in the ground, then Martin was on top.

 

[Fox123]

Report already indicated that it entered center of the chest, fragmented into 3 pieces, and did not exit the body.

 

[boricuamaximus]

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

Hate to tell you this but the police did not say do not follow him. In fact the police did not say anything to Zimmerman prior to.

 

[EL1227]

Yeppers ...

Hate to tell you this but the police did not say do not follow him. In fact the police did not say anything to Zimmerman prior to.

Zimmerman's 911 call transcript ...

Dispatcher: Are you following him ?

Zimmerman: Yeah

Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok​

It was the Dispatcher and he agreed. Read the WHOLE thing ... especially when he looses track of Martin.

 

[EL1227]

IANAL, but it's my understanding that a Murder 2 charge includes the elements of Manslaughter by law in Florida (and some other states as well) - that is, Murder 2 IS Manslaughter with some added stuff (the "depraved mind" we keep hearing about, among others). So the jury could conceivably find that the core Manslaughter elements were proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but not those extra elements, and therefore convict on Manslaughter but not Murder.

I see ...

So, murder 1 is murder 2, but pre-meditated, and murder 2 is manslaughter with malice, but no forethought, and self-defense trumps manslaughter.

He's in the clear ...

 

[Maestro Pistolero]

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

Zimmerman did not follow Trayvon. On what do you base that false assumption? If you look at the video reenactment of the crime filmed the day after the event, you will cure whatever the source of your ignorance.

 

[Tyeraxus]

I see ...

So, murder 1 is murder 2, but pre-meditated, and murder 2 is manslaughter with malice, but no forethought, and self-defense trumps manslaughter.

He's in the clear ...

That's how I understand it, yeah, and if I'm right I would agree with you, except that the case has been over-politicized from day one.

 

[kcbrown]

Why should TM have fled to his dads house? From what I have read, trayvon was minding his own business when Zimmerman began following him, walking to his fathers house in that development. Zimmerman was told by the police that they didn't need him to follow TM for a reason. TM was not committing any crime and shouldn't have to run to his dads house because he was followed by an unknown/unidentified person. Would you run home if someone was following you? Or would you verbally confront them?

Even if you verbally confronted them, that would not be grounds for you to initiate force (i.e., throw a punch).

The evidence suggests that Trayvon Martin initiated force. Even if he was being followed, that alone does not justify use of force.

As a result, whether or not Zimmerman was following him is actually irrelevant. Could the entire situation have been avoided had Zimmerman not followed Martin at all? Possibly. But that is irrelevant with respect to the murder charge. What is relevant is who initiated force. Indeed, unless Martin was actually attempting to flee (something for which there is no evidence), who initiated force is probably the only truly relevant question.