No more SBRs

[SB281 Blaster]

If you look at the way the law is written, a HBAR is still a ALG, its just not a banned one. So by my read it can not be a copy cat since no ALG can be a copy cat.



I have to side with Clandestine on this. Since there is a lack of MD guidance on a gun that is federally regulated, its a fair assumption to use Federal standards. OAL could include a bayonet's blade too but... not likely. ATF methods are fairly well recognized and unless state law specifically says otherwise, its the standard. MD just uses to many other ATF standards to say different.

MSP Advisory LD-FRS-13-004 states an HBAR is excluded from the definition of ALG and subject to Copycat.

 

[clandestine]

Thank you for doing that. You're the reason gun owners are continually screwed over because you can't just shut up. You have to get a ruling as if to prove something. No doubt they will go with the most strict interpretation possible. Colt branded HBARs only and federal methodology in regards to OAL.

Not that I ever planned on doing business with you, but I will make sure that anyone who asks my opinion on your services doesn't go to you. You'll be solely responsible for the lousy method of measuring OAL resulting in wretched pinned and welded muzzle devices. Thanks again.

I should have expected a response like that. I'm not concerned about your opinion of me, nor do I need your recomendations. But I am concerned about good people getting bad advice from people like you which could lead them into legal troubles with a non compliant gun. Same goes for shops who cut corners instead of pinning guns that are under 29" with the screw on barrel extension removed. There was people here that consistently told people it was best to do form 4s since 10/1. That bad advice on stuff like that is going to probably going to screw a bunch of people with pending form 4s

Just because I read the law for what it is does not mean I support it. I can put aside what I want it to say and read it as it says. I don't have to like what it says.

Nice try on the edit though.

 

[TNW]

If you look at the way the law is written, a HBAR is still a ALG, its just not a banned one. So by my read it can not be a copy cat since no ALG can be a copy cat.

Wow interesting take! Thanks for pointing that out. That would really simplify barrel options for an SBR in terms of profile correct?

My initial understanding was that after 10/1 all ALGs were banned, and that the Colt HBAR was not an ALG and therefore not banned, rather than being exempted as you assert... Very interesting.

Once again you've dodged the basic point that the ATF's method has no bearing on a Maryland restriction of 29" when Maryland law does not define method of measuring OAL.

Thank you for doing that. You're the reason gun owners are continually screwed over because you can't just shut up. You have to get a ruling as if to prove something. No doubt they will go with the most strict interpretation possible. Colt branded HBARs only and federal methodology in regards to OAL. Thanks again.

I see what he was getting at though, and to be honest I would rather have something in writing to go off of and be sure everything was legal.

At this point I doubt they can change their position on HBARS and which are legal, unless they add to the list.

 

[TNW]

MSP Advisory LD-FRS-13-004 states an HBAR is excluded from the definition of ALG and subject to Copycat.

Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[clandestine]

MSP Advisory LD-FRS-13-004 states an HBAR is excluded from the definition of ALG and subject to Copycat.

Your putting words in his mouth. He is right and the HBAR was an exemption just like the Garand is.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

ATF is has ruled on measuring OAL and there's documentation. Those who make up their own rules are going to have problems with the MSP. OAL is measured with the stock open and extended and with the muzzle device removed, unless permanent.

If it makes you feel better I'm planning on requesting documentation from the MSP and I have attached the ATF letter in my request.

I have also requested a technical definition on HBAR.

Please don't do this. The general understanding of a heavy barrel is 3/4" or more the full length, non-government profile, no notch for grenade launcher. Let the OAL measurement rest. We all understand ATF's definition. If MD puts it in writing then we are stuck with it. At least now we have an argument.

 

[TNW]

Please don't do this. The general understanding of a heavy barrel is 3/4" or more the full length, non-government profile, no notch for grenade launcher. Let the OAL measurement rest. We all understand ATF's definition. If MD puts it in writing then we are stuck with it. At least now we have an argument.

So does it have to be .750 or greater in front of the gas block? Or just .750 at the gas block and greater than that behind it. I wish I had a caliper to check my colt:/

One of the rainier barrels I was checking out was .750 gas block, greater than .750 under the handguard, and .726 in front of the gas block excluding the threads

 

[Abacab]

I should have expected a response like that. I'm not concerned about your opinion of me, nor do I need your recomendations. But I am concerned about good people getting bad advice from people like you which could lead them into legal troubles with a non compliant gun. Same goes for shops who cut corners instead of pinning guns that are under 29" with the screw on barrel extension removed. There was people here that consistently told people it was best to do form 4s since 10/1. That bad advice on stuff like that is going to probably going to screw a bunch of people with pending form 4s

Just because I read the law for what it is does not mean I support it. I can put aside what I want it to say and read it as it says. I don't have to like what it says.

Nice try on the edit though.

Nice try on the edit? I cleaned it up and decided to delete the language on the boycott. I'd rather let other people decide if they want to patronize a guy who goes out of his way to screw people. But if you want to quote the original version, by all means; I stand by it. I would never give you a dime.

Like I said, smug and wrong. You've got nothing to back up your opinion on measuring OAL other than the ATF method per 26"; it is irrelevant in a discussion on Maryland's 29". Apparently you missed that day in class covering state law vs. federal law.

Just keep dodging that point about MD law not specifying how to measure OAL. I am still waiting for the part in COMAR where it says permanently attached.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

So does it have to be .750 or greater in front of the gas block? Or just .750 at the gas block and greater than that behind it. I wish I had a caliper to check my colt:/

One of the rainier barrels I was checking out was .750 gas block, greater than .750 under the handguard, and .726 in front of the gas block excluding the threads

Ok, I got out the calipers. In front of the gas block on the Colt HBAR is .725 and on the it's Windham is .750.

 

[TNW]

Ok, I got out the calipers. In front of the gas block on the Colt HBAR is .725 and on the it's Windham is .750.

My man! Any chance you could measure behind too? Unless your handguard is a pain to take off...

We need to make a sticky of different MSP approved HBARs.

Seriously. Thank you so much for checking.

 

[dblas]

ATF is has ruled on measuring OAL and there's documentation. Those who make up their own rules are going to have problems with the MSP. OAL is measured with the stock open and extended and with the muzzle device removed, unless permanent.

If it makes you feel better I'm planning on requesting documentation from the MSP and I have attached the ATF letter in my request.

I have also requested a technical definition on HBAR.

Somewhere in this thread, I have pasted the reply from MSP on how they measure OAL. They follow the ATF form, Extended stock - to the end of the permanent muzzle device.

 

[TNW]

Somewhere in this thread, I have pasted the reply from MSP on how they measure OAL. They follow the ATF form, Extended stock - to the end of the permanent muzzle device.

I remember seeing that. I'm checking now to see if I saved it.

 

[clandestine]

Somewhere in this thread, I have pasted the reply from MSP on how they measure OAL. They follow the ATF form, Extended stock - to the end of the permanent muzzle device.

I cant find it. I have the BATFE letter but nothing from the MSP.

I even searched the attachments of the thread with no luck.


Be careful now, they will say you are the reason for bad gun laws in MD for having a letter that proves them wrong and will keep GOOD people out of trouble.

 

[bobthefisher]

I remember seeing that. I'm checking now to see if I saved it.

Yeah same here, it was sent from an MSP corporal's iPhone... of which I commented on how unprofessional to use an iPhone for an official email, explaining that MSP measures OAL just like the ATF. I of course, got immediately blasted for suggesting that sending an official email via an iPhone is not unprofessional these days. I stepped back, and let you guys have that argument. Touchy Touchy

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Originally Posted by MSP
From: Thomas Williams -State Police
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 9:55 PM
Subject: Fwd: Barrel length
To: Andi Morony <andimorony@gmail.com>


How length is measured.
Tom


http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...-chapter-2.pdf

Under the first diagram there is a description of how ATF measures.

Sent from my iPhone 4s

 

[clandestine]

Originally Posted by MSP
From: Thomas Williams -State Police
Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 9:55 PM
Subject: Fwd: Barrel length
To: Andi Morony <andimorony@gmail.com>


How length is measured.
Tom


http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...-chapter-2.pdf

Under the first diagram there is a description of how ATF measures.

Sent from my iPhone 4s

So are you and Abacab going to blast Andi for asking? Didn't think so.

It needed to be clarified and its idiotic to give people bad advice because they are too stubborn to pin a muzzle device or don't want to hear what KNOWLEDGED people say about the Law.

I like my new signature.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

I even said please.

 

[Abacab]

I appreciate you making my point. Apparently, you find it funny that people ask you not to get a ruling that would result in people getting screwed. If that doesn't prove what I said about you, I don't know what will.

Who is the knowledge person? You? Like I have asked some 3 or 4 times now, where in COMAR does it say permanently attached? It doesn't. You've now got an email from MSP that tells you to go the ATF website. I am not sure what that proves. The MSP still doesn't say how MARYLAND measures length. The law doesn't specify AND it doesn't say use the ATF method. As usual, you avoid admitting you have absolutely no supporting evidence per the law whatsoever. I think your claim of knowledgeable (whether that is you or someone else you are talking about)deserves the true laugh.

For the last time, where in the law does it say the ATF method must be used to measure OAL?

 

[SB281 Blaster]

My man! Any chance you could measure behind too? Unless your handguard is a pain to take off...

We need to make a sticky of different MSP approved HBARs.

Seriously. Thank you so much for checking.

It gets huge. Colt is .850 for 3", then steps to .950 for 2 1/4", then .985 for
1 1/2". The Windham is .850 for 1 1/2", then steps to .950 for 4", .985 for 1 3/4".

The Windham HBC is heavier than the Colt HBAR, that is why I push them as a handsdown HBAR.

 

[teratos]

I would prefer to have a ruling in writing rather than wait until I am arrested, spend $10,000 + on a defense attorney, and risk losing my firearms Rights. That's just me......