Bill Status Thread

[Bertfish]

MAKING A LOT OF NOISE IS NOT THE SAME AS MAKING A LOT OF PROGRESS.

I know I am jumping in to the fray right in the middle but I have to agree with you here erwos. Year after year I've seen this base get fired up, testify, email, call, and assemble only to be either a) hosed by Annapolis or b) reach a draw with Annapolis. We never seem to move forward despite all of the effort put forth. I have a hard time even getting excited anymore when the CCW bill is heard each year because, year after year, they simply ignore it.

We all thought we had finally achieved victory when the Wollard decision came down but the appeals court and SCOTUS finished that off. The only way I see us ever having our rights restored in this state is to somehow pull off a mass cultural shift to the right which will, in turn, shift Annapolis to the right. The Libs down there just don't give a damn about us despite everyone's best efforts to make it clear that we are here to stay and fight their attempts to seize even more of our rights.

 

[navycraig]

I'm applying for a renewal of my permit soon (next couple of months). I'll report back on the attitude that I encounter from the MSP.

But you have not faced problems before, right? Your occupation is (in general) one of the accepted reasons to be issued a permit based on current law.
I'm certainly interested in your results and hope that it works out for you, but have no reason to think that it won't. Now, if you were simply to list self defense as your G&S,...

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

I know I am jumping in to the fray right in the middle but I have to agree with you here erwos. Year after year I've seen this base get fired up, testify, email, call, and assemble only to be either a) hosed by Annapolis or b) reach a draw with Annapolis. We never seem to move forward despite all of the effort put forth. I have a hard time even getting excited anymore when the CCW bill is heard each year because, year after year, they simply ignore it. We all thought we had finally achieved victory when the Wollard decision came down but the appeals court and SCOTUS finished that off. The only way I see us ever having our rights restored in this state is to somehow pull off a mass cultural shift to the right which will, in turn, shift Annapolis to the right. The Libs down there just don't give a damn about us despite everyone's best efforts to make it clear that we are here to stay and fight their attempts to seize even more of our rights.

Maybe they just like us. Heck, we put so much effort into getting CCW's... If it ever passes, they may not feel so special without all of our calls and visits.

Ok, maybe they just need a good chuckle every session and we provide comic relief.

 

[Bertfish]

Ok, maybe they just need a good chuckle every session and we provide comic relief.

That could be!

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here and I applaud all who make an effort. But how many years has this community repeated this same process and gotten nowhere? Maybe it will bear fruit one day but you can't blame folks for getting frustrated.

 

[Gryphon]

But you have not faced problems before, right? Your occupation is (in general) one of the accepted reasons to be issued a permit based on current law.
I'm certainly interested in your results and hope that it works out for you, but have no reason to think that it won't. Now, if you were simply to list self defense as your G&S,...

The perception that attorneys get a pass on G&S is incorrect. Unlike being a legislator (Jack McCauley has stated the MSP considers a legislator to have an inherent G&S), just being an attorney is not an "automatic" G&S based on profession/position alone. Of course depending on their particular practice, and the people they represent and the people they oppose (and really piss off), attorneys may very well have a G&S (I would say even more so than a State delegate or senator), but it hasn't been automatic. They may also be a "business owner" to satisfy G&S. Just another example of the arbitrary process. Legislator yes, attorney no, doctor maybe, business owner yes, etc.

Second, just my two cents worth, under the current climate if the MSP is to start treating "self-defense" (absent SB100 prying itself out of Zirkin's drawer and passing) as G&S, I think any applicant would be better off articulating a basis for that self-defense as opposed to just stating self-defense period. I don't like it, but I tend to think if you articulate a basis for the self-defense in lieu of just a bald claim of self-defense, you'd have a better chance. I am not saying provide a particular threat to satisfy the traditional G&S, but do more than just say self-defense. Just me speculating, nothing to actually back this up. My thought is that for the near future you are stuck with establishing G&S, even if MSP starts treating self-defense as acceptable, so you are better off making your argument. Unfortunately, under the current unconstitutional system a permit is a privilege not a right.

 

[ironpony]

Yeah, frustrated. SB100 dead for now? Is there a word for doing the same thing over and over and over expecting a different result?

 

[navycraig]

The perception that attorneys get a pass on G&S is incorrect. Unlike being a legislator (Jack McCauley has stated the MSP considers a legislator to have an inherent G&S), just being an attorney is not an "automatic" G&S based on profession/position alone. Of course depending on their particular practice, and the people they represent and the people they oppose (and really piss off), attorneys may very well have a G&S (I would say even more so than a State delegate or senator), but it hasn't been automatic. They may also be a "business owner" to satisfy G&S. Just another example of the arbitrary process. Legislator yes, attorney no, doctor maybe, business owner yes, etc.

Second, just my two cents worth, under the current climate if the MSP is to start treating "self-defense" (absent SB100 prying itself out of Zirkin's drawer and passing) as G&S, I think any applicant would be better off articulating a basis for that self-defense as opposed to just stating self-defense period. I don't like it, but I tend to think if you articulate a basis for the self-defense in lieu of just a bald claim of self-defense, you'd have a better chance. I am not saying provide a particular threat to satisfy the traditional G&S, but do more than just say self-defense. Just me speculating, nothing to actually back this up. My thought is that for the near future you are stuck with establishing G&S, even if MSP starts treating self-defense as acceptable, so you are better off making your argument. Unfortunately, under the current unconstitutional system a permit is a privilege not a right.

With respect to the lawyers, I agree with your comments and that is why I stated "in general".

I agree also regarding further defining G&S if one decides to apply. I doubt seriously if self defense alone would fly (although it should) and one would need something to back that up.

I have thought seriously about ridding myself of nearly all credit/debit cards (except one for emergencies) and going all cash. I make pretty good money and tend to be a spender so I would need to carry a lot of cash with me just to conduct day to day business. Maybe that would fly as my G&S.

 

[Schipperke]

MAKING A LOT OF NOISE IS NOT THE SAME AS MAKING A LOT OF PROGRESS.

Well stated. In Maryland, the progress has been all one sided and not the side I care for.

Yeah, frustrated. SB100 dead for now? Is there a word for doing the same thing over and over and over expecting a different result?

This too. We are beholden to sharp and willing attorneys to attack gun laws on a Federal and State levels.

Maryland legislation? That's been a one way street for how many years?

 

[vgplayer]

So far I haven't seen anything added to any of the bill pages.

Regardless I'm mailing my application this week with Self-defense as my G&S.

 

[Gryphon]

So far I haven't seen anything added to any of the bill pages.

Regardless I'm mailing my application this week with Self-defense as my G&S.

Can't find out unless you try. If nothing else you help break down the MSP propaganda that "almost everyone that wants one gets one," and you will learn if Hogan/Pallozzi are 2A supporters or not.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Yeah, frustrated. SB100 dead for now? Is there a word for doing the same thing over and over and over expecting a different result?

Not quite dead yet. Since it's cross filed, if no amendments are made, it could pass both chambers until nearly sine die for the governors signature.

Then again, chances of this happening are (and have always been) about .00000001%.

 

[Medshot]

Can't find out unless you try. If nothing else you help break down the MSP propaganda that "almost everyone that wants one gets one," and you will learn if Hogan/Pallozzi are 2A supporters or not.

What are the complications for reapplying if one is denied? I've been thinking of being a guinea pig, but I recall reading a thread a few years back that being denied once results in problems reapplying in the future, such as being blacklisted or something to that effect.

 

[Mr H]

You want to call me out? Two can play that game.


That's your usual MO, isn't it? Claim that you've got secret squirrel knowledge that none of the rest of us have, and therefore we're wrong because only you know the truth. I know I'm not the only person on this board who's getting tired of your "I always know the real story" BS, mostly because you've never once revealed "the real story".

By all means, cover "what actually happened" here, because I think you have no idea what you're talking about. You're going to spout off some rah-rah crap about the protests, the emails, the testimony, whatever. It'll make everyone feel good, but it will be obscuring the truth of the simple fact that our enemies were the ones who changed that bill on their own terms for their own reasons, and were at best indirectly influenced by MSI's campaign against the bill.


Never said otherwise. I am saying that Frosh himself gutted that bill to start with, and do you think he personally cared about all of those protests, beyond what was going to be necessary to pass it. And that's the key here: the changes were made to pass it, not to kill it. That's not us being in the driver's seat, that's us being the poor bastards in the back getting taken along for the ride.

MAKING A LOT OF NOISE IS NOT THE SAME AS MAKING A LOT OF PROGRESS.

Nothing secret about any of it.

In fact, damned near all of it was posted here at one point or another.

Please try to keep up.

 

[Gryphon]

What are the complications for reapplying if one is denied? I've been thinking of being a guinea pig, but I recall reading a thread a few years back that being denied once results in problems reapplying in the future, such as being blacklisted or something to that effect.

None. Even if denied there is no prohibition to reapplying at a future date.

 

[Medshot]

None. Even if denied there is no prohibition to reapplying at a future date.

Hmmm...well, guess I'll be a test case then!

 

[navycraig]

None. Even if denied there is no prohibition to reapplying at a future date.

And it does not present problems for permits in other states. I have received 3 non-resident permits after being denied by MD.

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

MAKING A LOT OF NOISE IS NOT THE SAME AS MAKING A LOT OF PROGRESS.

I've noticed that distinction isn't particularly evident to Mr. H

 

[erwos]

Nothing secret about any of it.

In fact, damned near all of it was posted here at one point or another.

So, it shouldn't be very hard to link to what I got wrong. But I didn't get any of it wrong, so that's not going to happen. I know what happened with SB281, because I was updating that damn FAQ every day, every hour when the legislation was being amended. I was certainly not blind to the context these changes were happening in, having personally witnessed that context.

Please try to keep up.

I'm not the one with the reality-denial problem, or who keeps moving the goal posts. I'm waiting for you to tell us what a win this session was because all our bills got desk-drawered and no one bent us over the barrel.

And, just so it's clear: I don't blame MSI for that outcome. Our core problem is that our state has left-wing urban demographics that curb-stomp the rural parts of the state, and has a state house/senate to match. But even just acknowledging that we are unlikely to accomplish anything in the legislature except maybe a holding action would be a refreshing breath of fresh air/reality.

 

[Mr H]

I've noticed that distinction isn't particularly evident to Mr. H

respectfully, I must say you could not be more wrong.

But then, I chose to be involved closer to the center than most. something anyone here could do.

I do my best to communicate what I see in a way that won't compromise the fight.

Like it or not is up to you... But, as I've said before, I won't relitigate 2 and 3 year old conversations any more.

 

[danb]

Let's not fight amongst ourselves.

If y'all want to know who the real enemy is: Zirkin ran unopposed... as did a lot of Democrats. That is just one example. Delegates need to fear the voters more than M&M.