Decision in Kolbe!

[Mr H]

I can't do that. Ran out of my BP meds. lol

That's why I'm not on FB!!!

 

[fightinbluhen51]

So how many of the 4 guests on this thread are from the State Attorney's orifice?

Welcome aboard

Guaranteed 'more than none' (up to 6 now)

Hi, Erin!!!!

Someone please find the hedgehog...I need to smile some more.

You know what I really like about reading this decision? I can see Baron von Frosh saying all of this stupid stuff, and love watching the Circuit piss all over him.

Pee in his cheerios? Yes please!

Get a Bill in quick to repeal FSA2013, if passed, moot?

Why? What do we gain?

I would personally want this 4 th circuit opinion to stand, so I would be against this

Me too.

For those interested in looking for a meaningful statement to express to their delegates in regards to current and future MD firearm legislation, I present this quote from the opinion. (pg. 45 of 90)

Our distinguished dissenting colleague asserts that we have imprudently and unnecessarily broken with our sister courts of appeal and infers that we will bear some responsibility for future mass shootings. In our view, inferences of this nature have no place in judicial opinions and we will not respond beyond noting this. The meaning of the Constitution does not depend on a popular vote of the circuits and it is neither improper nor imprudent for us to disagree with the other circuits addressing this issue. We are not a rubber stamp. We require strict scrutiny here not because it aligns with our personal policy preferences but because we believe it is compelled by the law set out in Heller and Chester.

:nuke: I like it.

Music to my years...

That give me a BIG grin.

Likewise.

So here's a thought from FB.

If the 4th says the 2A requires SS, doesn't that mean Woollard should be reheard?

I wish it works that way.

This is some terrific news, and I will fully admit I didn't expect this to go our way - AWBs have been notoriously hard to kill.

The possibilities that this will open up at the local and national levels are huge, and cannot be overestimated. With the right sequences of events (state appeal, SCOTUS affirm), this could destroy every AWB and mag cap limit in the country.

Of course, it will never get that far, because Frosh would have to be some sort of insane to appeal to the current SCOTUS and risk that happening on the national level. But does he have a choice? He's AG, he's supposed to defend our laws... maybe repeal is closer than we think?

So, does this mean that even MD's 20 round previous limit is unconstitutional? Oh, I hope so, I hope so.

Judge King wrote the 4th Circuit's decision in Woollard.

Yep, and he was just as dishonest then as now.

Frosh doesn't have the balls to appeal the opinion to the SCOTUS!

I see what you're doing there...and I like it!

Can you blame him?

Yeah,

He's bluffing!

As a typical democrat politician, they will say anything to keep us little people in check. He is scared to go to the SCOTUS! Because the name Brian Frosh will be the guy who set back in the anti-gun agenda by 30 years.

Hey Frosh! You don't have the stones to do it. Loser! Anyone know how to submit to loser.com? I wish I did...

 

[eruby]

If he were to lose at SCOTUS on his own appeal, it would kill every single AWB and mag cap limit in the country. No way whatsoever it gets to that point. The district is now looking like a lock. If we can win the following appeal (or it gets denied), he will do everything in his power to drop the case or get the law repealed. No way does he want his legacy to be "the guy who ended gun control everywhere".

Well said erwos.

I'm inclined to agree with that.

Then again, hubris is a melon farmer...

Evidently Mr. Saint's an educated man.

 

[Gryphon]

Too bad this wasn't published on Monday, it would have made Tuesday a bit more festive in Annapolis.

 

[Inigoes]

There isn't anything to appeal, just yet.

Yes, there is.

Options:
1) The state has the option to appeal this decision en banc, or to the SCOTUS.
2) Accept their lumps, and take another bite at the apple in the district.

 

[moojersey]

So here's a thought from FB. If the 4th says the 2A requires SS, doesn't that mean Woollard should be reheard?

Interesting thought.

Frosh is basically saying he will continue to trample your civil rights and wastefully spend your tax dollars.

Yeah Frosh can lick my boots. No one cares what he wants. He is going to waste tax dollars on his personal agenda. We need to figure out how to get him out of office, next time he is up to bat.

 

[Jim12]

That poor bastard. His hair is a wreck.

Whenever I see his image the word "disheveled" comes to mind.

Maybe it's on purpose to distract from his mumbo jumbo.

 

[erwos]

So, fast-forward to Frosh's now-almost-certain loss in district court. What are the tea leaves like for his appeal? You've got to figure he's going to request en banc, given the odds. Are they likely to contradict themselves? Do we think there's any chance at all they might just deny the appeal?

I'm worried that we're in a Woolard situation. But I guess that's life when you're playing judicial ball.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

So, fast-forward to Frosh's now-almost-certain loss in district court. What are the tea leaves like for his appeal? You've got to figure he's going to request en banc, given the odds. Are they likely to contradict themselves? Do we think there's any chance at all they might just deny the appeal?

I'm worried that we're in a Woolard situation. But I guess that's life when you're playing judicial ball.

The 4th Circuit would have to overturn other 4th circuit case law (Chester) with regards to strict scrutiny. Didn't that go en banc (request, at a minimum)? Someone with Pacer will have to check.

1) I HIGHLY doubt that the 4th will take this en banc.
2) Traxler is really respected in this circuit (and others, if memory serves).
3) I could be wrong.

 

[Inigoes]

I'm worried that we're in a Woolard situation. But I guess that's life when you're playing judicial ball.

Woollard was the reverse. A win at district, and a loss on Appeal.

Kolbe is a loss in district, and a win of sorts on Appeal.

Frosh can contest the level of scrutiny en banc or to the SCOTUS, before having to go back down to district and fight the fight.

 

[nobis1]

My favorite part:

"Our distinguished dissenting colleague asserts that we have imprudently and
unnecessarily broken with our sister courts of appeal and infers that we
will bear some responsibility for future mass shootings. In our view,
inferences of this nature have no place in judicial opinions and we will not
respond beyond noting this. The meaning of the Constitution does not depend
on a popular vote of the circuits and it is neither improper nor imprudent
for us to disagree with the other circuits addressing this issue. We are not
a rubber stamp. We require strict scrutiny here not because it aligns with
our personal policy preferences but because we believe it is compelled by
the law set out in Heller and Chester."

This, in a nutshell, is the issue since Heller. Like it or not, firearm ownership is protected by the Bill of Rights. It is also a heavy shot at the dissenting judge. They are questioning his temperament and ability to apply the law in an even handed manner.

 

[erwos]

Woollard was the reverse. A win at district, and a loss on Appeal.

Kolbe is a loss in district, and a win of sorts on Appeal.

In the sense that we've got a nice win, but it may be uncertain on appeal. Are you sure he can appeal before going back to district court?

 

[plinkerton]

To summarize then:

- Semi auto rifles and mags are covered by 2A
- Accordingly strict scrutiny should apply to review of FSA 2013
- retired LEO and everyday citizens not similarly situated with respect to possession of firearms
- Term "copies" of banned weapons is not overly vague

Miss anything?

Then how is a Beretta ARX a "copycat" of an AR-15? Not arguing with you, but if MSP can call an ARX a copy of an AR-15 then you can call me a copy of a sunflower.

 

[Inigoes]

In the sense that we've got a nice win, but it may be uncertain on appeal. Are you sure he can appeal before going back to district court?

He has the option, now the chance of that happening, I do not know. The appeal would not be on the content of the lawsuit, but on the level of scrutiny applied in the opinion.

It would be great to have the name "Brian Frosh" synonymous with the guy who killed gun control.

 

[Jim12]

Frosh is basically saying he will continue to trample your civil rights and wastefully spend your tax dollars.

... giving us reason to "rest assured," as he puts it.

 

[Soda]

Frosh says he is going to ask for a rehearing of the case by the full 4th Circuit or seek review from the Supreme Court

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...234240-cb59-11e5-88ff-e2d1b4289c2f_story.html

 

[danb]

Then how is a Beretta ARX a "copycat" of an AR-15? Not arguing with you, but if MSP can call an ARX a copy of an AR-15 then you can call me a copy of a sunflower.

"copycat weapon" in the law means something specific: semi automatic rifle with a detatchable mag and some evil features (flash hider, folding stock, OAL<29" etc).

It also means a copy of one of the named assault weapons.

ARX passes the evil child killing features test and is extra special evil.

 

[plinkerton]

Too bad this wasn't published on Monday, it would have made Tuesday a bit more festive in Annapolis.

Anybody up for a 2A Tuesday, part deaux?

 

[Hopalong]

Anybody up for a 2A Tuesday, part deaux?

2A Duexday?

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Where's KC Brown to break down the stats on CA4 and rehearing odds??

PAGING KC BROWN, CODE BLUE.