Keeping rifle in car in md. Legal?

[fidelity]

Montgomery County, Maryland Department of Police Weapons Law Summary
Montgomery County Maryland

Keeping Guns on Persons or in Vehicles

It is unlawful for any person to have either concealed or exposed, or to have in a motor vehicle where it can be readily used, any gun which uses explosive ammunition unless a person is engaged in a lawful mission where it is necessary to use a gun; or is employed as a special guard, special police officer, or special detective and has been deputized by the sheriff, or has been appointed a constable, or has been licensed by the laws of the state to carry a gun and is in the immediate vicinity of the premises of any employer whose occupation requires someone to carry a gun.
A person is allowed to carry a gun if he is a member of the military service or authorized as a peace officer; or is engaged in lawful hunting, drill training, or target practice, or is on property which the person owns or leases or with prior permission of the owner or lessee; or is going to or from lawful hunting, drill training, or target practice, or is engaged in any lawful transfer of possession such as carrying a gun from a gunsmith or repairman, provided that the gun is not loaded and the person is traveling on a public highway, or on property which he owns or leases, or on property with prior permission from the owner or lessee.

Ellis, when I search for the word "deputized" (which is in the above) in the below statement, I can't find it. I'm looking for where you've found the above excerpt (e.g. if there is a code/regulation number in MoCo). The case you've cited below, which I've only skimmed, seems to only bring up handgun and not long gun transport.

Please see brochure (Weapons Law Summary) #7970, Department of Police Firearm Safety Committee 100 Edison Park Drive • Gaithersburg, Maryland 20878 Updated 09/14. This is the source of the "Keeping Guns on Persons or in Vehicles" language.

Remember, Montgomery County tried to pull a fast one by restricting the sale of ammunition in 1983. This ban ended up in court and Montgomery County lost (state preemption). Is there another state preemption issue in Montgomery County involving the transportation of firearms?


MONTGOMERY COUNTY v. ATLANTIC GUNS, INC.

[snip]

The State Act regulates both loaded and unloaded handguns, and expressly preempts all local laws regulating the same subject. Bill No. 17-82 restricts the wearing, carrying, or transporting of loaded handguns. It is therefore invalid.

JUDGMENT OF THE CIRCUIT COURT FOR MONTGOMERY COUNTY AFFIRMED. PETITIONERS TO PAY COSTS.

 

[Pale Ryder]

Got a hunting license and furbearer stamp? Coyotes are in season 365.

 

[Ellis Gordon]

Montgomery County Weapons Law Brochure

I have attached a copy of the Montgomery County Weapons Law Brochure

 

[Ellis Gordon]

Mongomery County Chapter 57. Weapons

I have attached the section of the Montgomery County Code, Chapter 57, Weapons. Read definition of gun or firearm along with Sec. 57-10.

Gun or firearm: Any rifle, shotgun, revolver, pistol, air gun, air rifle or any similar mechanism by whatever name known which is designed to expel a projectile through a gun barrel by the action of any explosive, gas, compressed air, spring or elastic.

Sec. 57-10. Keeping guns on person or in vehicles.
It shall be unlawful for any person to have upon his person, concealed or exposed, or in a motor vehicle where it is readily available for use, any gun designed to use explosive ammunition unless:
(a) Lawful mission. Such person is then engaged upon a lawful mission for which it is necessary to carry a gun upon his person; or
(b) Special guard, special police, etc. Such person is employed as a special guard, special police officer or special detective and has been lawfully deputized by the sheriff for the county, or has been appointed a constable in the county, or has been licensed under the laws of the state, should such a law be enacted, to carry such gun and then is on or in the immediate vicinity of the premises of any employer whose occupation lawfully requires the employment of a person carrying a gun while in the discharge of the duties of such employment; or
(c) Military service. Such person is then lawfully engaged in military service or as a duly authorized peace officer; or
(d) Hunting, target practice, etc. Such person is engaged in lawful hunting, drill, training or target practice on property of which he is the owner or lessee or on property with the prior permission of the owner or lessee thereof; or
(e) Going to or returning from hunting, target practice, etc. Such person is engaged in going to or from lawful hunting, drill training or target practice, or in delivering such gun to or carrying it from a gunsmith or repairman, or is engaged in any other lawful transfer of possession; provided, that such person shall be on or traveling upon a public highway or property of which he is the owner or lessee or on property with the prior permission of the owner or lessee thereof; provided further, that such gun shall not be loaded with explosive ammunition. (1981 L.M.C., ch. 42, § 1; 2001 L.M.C., ch.11, § 1.)
Editor's note—Section 57-10, formerly § 57-7, was renumbered pursuant to 2001 L.M.C., ch. 11, § 1.

 

[fabsroman]

I have attached the section of the Montgomery County Code, Chapter 57, Weapons. Read definition of gun or firearm along with Sec. 57-10.

Gun or firearm: Any rifle, shotgun, revolver, pistol, air gun, air rifle or any similar mechanism by whatever name known which is designed to expel a projectile through a gun barrel by the action of any explosive, gas, compressed air, spring or elastic.

Sec. 57-10. Keeping guns on person or in vehicles.
It shall be unlawful for any person to have upon his person, concealed or exposed, or in a motor vehicle where it is readily available for use, any gun designed to use explosive ammunition unless:
(a) Lawful mission. Such person is then engaged upon a lawful mission for which it is necessary to carry a gun upon his person; or
(b) Special guard, special police, etc. Such person is employed as a special guard, special police officer or special detective and has been lawfully deputized by the sheriff for the county, or has been appointed a constable in the county, or has been licensed under the laws of the state, should such a law be enacted, to carry such gun and then is on or in the immediate vicinity of the premises of any employer whose occupation lawfully requires the employment of a person carrying a gun while in the discharge of the duties of such employment; or
(c) Military service. Such person is then lawfully engaged in military service or as a duly authorized peace officer; or
(d) Hunting, target practice, etc. Such person is engaged in lawful hunting, drill, training or target practice on property of which he is the owner or lessee or on property with the prior permission of the owner or lessee thereof; or
(e) Going to or returning from hunting, target practice, etc. Such person is engaged in going to or from lawful hunting, drill training or target practice, or in delivering such gun to or carrying it from a gunsmith or repairman, or is engaged in any other lawful transfer of possession; provided, that such person shall be on or traveling upon a public highway or property of which he is the owner or lessee or on property with the prior permission of the owner or lessee thereof; provided further, that such gun shall not be loaded with explosive ammunition. (1981 L.M.C., ch. 42, § 1; 2001 L.M.C., ch.11, § 1.)
Editor's note—Section 57-10, formerly § 57-7, was renumbered pursuant to 2001 L.M.C., ch. 11, § 1.

Yep, that is definitely one of Montgomery County's ordinances. I went and looked it up before I saw this post. Have to wonder what "readily available" means. Can I travel with a long gun in the trunk, or is that readily available.

Also, as already pointed out, this might be a preemption issue, but somebody is going to have to bring that up AFTER they get charged with this crime.

So, for those that have asked whether it is legal to carry a trunk gun in Maryland, it looks like things might be a little dicey in Montgomery County.

It just keeps getting better and better, and more and more confusing.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Humm.

Looks as if statute was written in 1981 ? But scratching my head, as it uses a Lot of language that was supersceeded in 1972 and earlier . I get the feeling if that exact thing was "written" in 1981, it was a near copy of somthing way older .

But other than the time warp, what I see as key is * readily available * . Actual trunk clearly isn't readily available . Actual The continuum of possibilities from that point of physical distance from driver/ passengers , the type of closures (if any) used on the case ( if any) , and etc require additional cogitation.

And what are the potential penalties of County Code 57-10 ?

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

They still try to enforce this in Montgomery County. It’s considered a "class A" violation- up to 6 months in jail and/or $100 fine. I represented someone on this exact issue there. He had been hunting in am in Frederick County and went on to work afterwards at his job in Montgomery County. A police officer investigating someone and something else noticed the rifle in the back of his pickup cab (dumb to leave it in plain view!) and he was arrested and charged with violating this statute.
Went to Court and argued preemption. Had three assistant states attorneys there all yelling at me as if they had never heard of it or the Atlantic Guns decision. Judge agreed and tossed the charges. Even got my client's rifle back.

 

[fabsroman]

They still try to enforce this in Montgomery County. It’s considered a "class A" violation- up to 6 months in jail and/or $100 fine. I represented someone on this exact issue there. He had been hunting in am in Frederick County and went on to work afterwards at his job in Montgomery County. A police officer investigating someone and something else noticed the rifle in the back of his pickup cab (dumb to leave it in plain view!) and he was arrested and charged with violating this statute.
Went to Court and argued preemption. Had three assistant states attorneys there all yelling at me as if they had never heard of it or the Atlantic Guns decision. Judge agreed and tossed the charges. Even got my client's rifle back.

Did the Judge opine as to why he/she was tossing the charge? Was it tossed on a motion prior to trial? I'm curious as to whether the judge agreed with you in that preemption applied.

I went to bed last night wondering if MoCo would actually charge somebody under that ordinance, and I wake up to, yes it would.

So, no trunk gun in MoCo unless a person wants to run the risk of having to appear for trial.

 

[swinokur]

what is the point of 4-209 if Mo Co tries to enforce carry, which the statufe clearly reserves to the state, and for laws grandfather, that cannot be in conflict with the portions of regulation assigned to the state.

comments?

 

[AlanInSilverSpring]

Lately it seems like every new guy joining asks about the legality of carrying a gun in some unlicensed manner. Hopefully it is just a coincidence. I suggest you search long gun open carry in Maryland on Google and search the opinions of the Maryland Attorney General's office for your answer. You will find the answers you seek by conducting those searches.

Welcome to the forum.

I asked a similar question, not because I was trying to figure out a way around the law, but because I'm trying to figure out how to stay within the law (and out of trouble at the same time).

The ordinary man doesn't stand a chance of understanding the convoluted laws in MD, then add to the mix how the laws are actually enforced and he's really screwed.

 

[esqappellate]

They still try to enforce this in Montgomery County. It’s considered a "class A" violation- up to 6 months in jail and/or $100 fine. I represented someone on this exact issue there. He had been hunting in am in Frederick County and went on to work afterwards at his job in Montgomery County. A police officer investigating someone and something else noticed the rifle in the back of his pickup cab (dumb to leave it in plain view!) and he was arrested and charged with violating this statute.
Went to Court and argued preemption. Had three assistant states attorneys there all yelling at me as if they had never heard of it or the Atlantic Guns decision. Judge agreed and tossed the charges. Even got my client's rifle back.

Nice job! Everyone knows that the People's Republic of Montgomery County is not bound by those pesky Court of Appeals rulings.

 

[pcfixer]

I'm quite sure keeping firearms out of sight when NOT hunting is taught by Hunter Safety. Especially Ben at Izaak Walton.

I'd hope anyone who reads this takes note.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Did the Judge opine as to why he/she was tossing the charge? Was it tossed on a motion prior to trial? I'm curious as to whether the judge agreed with you in that preemption applied.

I went to bed last night wondering if MoCo would actually charge somebody under that ordinance, and I wake up to, yes it would.

So, no trunk gun in MoCo unless a person wants to run the risk of having to appear for trial.

I raised a motion to dismiss when case was called and outlined my argument. Prosecutor was sandbagged (one of the advantages in District Court is I don't have to make certain motions ahead of time in writing and believe me I take full advantage of that!) Judge listened and then said he was going to pass on the case so the prosecutor and I could talk about it. That's when prosecutor called in reinforcements (her supervisors I believe) and we had a heated argument. Case was recalled and the prosecutor literally had nothing to say. Just looked at judge and said she had no "further" response to my argument. It was really weird. I think she was instructed not to dismiss the case. Judge then just said case dismissed. This was about 8 years ago and I cant remember who the judge was. I rarely go to Montgomery County.

 

[fabsroman]

I raised a motion to dismiss when case was called and outlined my argument. Prosecutor was sandbagged (one of the advantages in District Court is I don't have to make certain motions ahead of time in writing and believe me I take full advantage of that!) Judge listened and then said he was going to pass on the case so the prosecutor and I could talk about it. That's when prosecutor called in reinforcements (her supervisors I believe) and we had a heated argument. Case was recalled and the prosecutor literally had nothing to say. Just looked at judge and said she had no "further" response to my argument. It was really weird. I think she was instructed not to dismiss the case. Judge then just said case dismissed. This was about 8 years ago and I cant remember who the judge was. I rarely go to Montgomery County.

Thanks for the response and that is an awesome outcome. Granted, it would be better if Montgomery County were to repeal the law, but at least the outcome for your client was a good one. Have to wonder if anybody has been convicted of that ordinance in MoCo when it shouldn't even be enforceable. I'm guessing that somebody along the way has been screwed.

 

[JohnnyE]

what is the point of 4-209 if Mo Co tries to enforce carry, which the statufe clearly reserves to the state, and for laws grandfather, that cannot be in conflict with the portions of regulation assigned to the state.

comments?

Often times, the point is to create the opportunity for county councilmembers to issue press releases boasting about their vote that takes tough stance on crime, nothing more. Pure optics.

 

[SPQM]

what is the point of 4-209 if Mo Co tries to enforce carry, which the statufe clearly reserves to the state, and for laws grandfather, that cannot be in conflict with the portions of regulation assigned to the state.

comments?

The process is the punishment.

You can easily get it tossed (witness the commentary in this thread); but you have to hire a lawyer who knows about the obsoleting of 4-209 and the ASAs will fight you in court.

It's basically MoCoG being dicks, as usual.

 

[lazarus]

The process is the punishment.

You can easily get it tossed (witness the commentary in this thread); but you have to hire a lawyer who knows about the obsoleting of 4-209 and the ASAs will fight you in court.

It's basically MoCoG being dicks, as usual.

I wonder. Could you make a case about vexatious prosecution or something like that if ASAs should know about preemption and proceed anyway?

 

[outrider58]

As I sat at a red light the other day, a young tatted-up gentleman in the car in front of me started giving me the evil eye through his side view mirror. Next, he moved on the flashing gang signs to me, again, through his mirror. Then, he degraded to a single digit salute, as before, through his side view mirror, all the while staring straight at me. I wasn't pulled up tight on him. I always leave myself room to get around the vehicle in front of me. I calmly sat there, sunglasses on, and acted if I didn't notice his kind gestures. I never reacted. As the light went green and we proceeded on our merry way, he pulled into the left lane and drove slowly forcing me to go bast him in the right lane(where I had already been driving). Again, I never acknowledged his presents and proceeded on my way home. He seemed to continue to lag back, so once I got good distance, I sped up to the posted speed limit and put distance between us. He never showed up at my house to my relief.

I never wanted a gun in my truck more than that encounter that day. I'm thinking more about the risk -v- rewards of keeping a rifle in my truck. At least for the trip to and from work.

 

[Docster]

Lately it seems like every new guy joining asks about the legality of carrying a gun in some unlicensed manner. Hopefully it is just a coincidence. I suggest you search long gun open carry in Maryland on Google and search the opinions of the Maryland Attorney General's office for your answer. You will find the answers you seek by conducting those searches.

Welcome to the forum.

^^THIS. Encourage others to do a basic Search for the answers to their basic, previously answered and easily found questions Not enough members do that, preferring to enable those too lazy to do their own work.

 

[smokey]

As I sat at a red light the other day, a young tatted-up gentleman in the car in front of me started giving me the evil eye through his side view mirror. Next, he moved on the flashing gang signs to me, again, through his mirror. Then, he degraded to a single digit salute, as before, through his side view mirror, all the while staring straight at me. I wasn't pulled up tight on him. I always leave myself room to get around the vehicle in front of me. I calmly sat there, sunglasses on, and acted if I didn't notice his kind gestures. I never reacted. As the light went green and we proceeded on our merry way, he pulled into the left lane and drove slowly forcing me to go bast him in the right lane(where I had already been driving). Again, I never acknowledged his presents and proceeded on my way home. He seemed to continue to lag back, so once I got good distance, I sped up to the posted speed limit and put distance between us. He never showed up at my house to my relief.

I never wanted a gun in my truck more than that encounter that day. I'm thinking more about the risk -v- rewards of keeping a rifle in my truck. At least for the trip to and from work.

A reminder of my post waay at the beginning of this thread. Handguns can be transported in md unloaded and in an enclosed case or holster to any firing range or gun store, with magazines loaded but not in the gun. Also a reminder that AR pistols are pistols. Food for thought.