Boberg XR9

Sharadeth said:

Great looking little gun! Now I just need to start saving my pennies in hopes that it gets added to the roster.

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I was thinking "awkward looking gun' but what do I know I like glocks. I actually have been following the reviews on this gun and agree the concept is pretty neat. Who doesn't like a concealable gun that throws a bullet down range faster than many large guns?

I love the way it looks.

Minuteman said:

Lot's of very interesting features with this gun. Here are just a couple: There is no magazine follower, they designed it that way so you can get an extra round in the magazine. Another thing, you load the rounds in backward. Check it out:

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That dude is like the Bob Ross of gun videos. Haha. That is a very interesting little pistol there.

Baccusboy said:

The guy from http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.kr/p/gun-reviews.html

has done extensive reviews of the gun, and shot various ammo through it in his gel testing.

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The above review (a multipart series) sounds more reassuring. Had seen a negative one at TTAG ...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/07/eric-nelson/boberg-xr9-s-review-part-deux/

I'm interested in the XR9-S, and would save nickels for it if a few more positive reviews come out.

As stated upthread, it's not on the MD Handgun Roster as yet, but having gone through the process for an approval, it's not much work (with the Glock 42 being the only recent hiccup).

Agreed, there are a few negative reviews. Has taken a while to work the kinks out. Last I read it can still have issues with certain ammo. I've read enough on Boberg forum to know he has everything invested in making this gun as perfect as possible. Arnie Boberg is the designer, owner, everything. Reading his forum you get a sense of what it's like developing and modifying this gun. He has like 7 unique patents on it, and I believe another on the .45ACP version. Interesting discussion about how he chose 45acp over gap and other calibers.

I want to see one in real life and hope to shoot one someday. I love that this guy, Arnie, had a dream and just made it happen. Now if only they could get it on the Maryland handgun roster.

here's another review where you get to see the gun firing on the range. This is pretty sweet. It is hard to justify all the extra loot on this over a xds45, but it's absolutely fascinating from a design perspective. I like that what was old is new again with the gain twist rifling. I guess it comes down to if you'd like to spend some more to get a longer barrel, the ability to shoot 45 super(which is cool to me) and softer recoil, although the gun is not as concealable. The barrel length thing actually isn't as big a deal to me in .45 as the ability to shoot .45 super. Compared to other calibers, .45 really seems to do well in shorter barrel lengths at transferring energy with that big ol' efficient base to push on.

I'll be keeping an eye on this pistol fo'sho.

A bullpup pistol

She has hers...

Oh my . . . with a matching magazine extension

It's here!

Over two years waiting and I finally got to handle one in person, can't wait to shoot it and form my own impressions. This Sunday is one of my clubs biggest events of the year, hopefully I'll have it by then and as always, will be letting just about anyone shoot it.

Because of the controversy about the ammo sensitivity, I will be documenting every round that goes through it for some time. With the wrong ammo, I read that the bullet will separate and throw the unspent gunpowder into the shooters face; will be warning everyone about this, eye ware mandatory.

Here's what they say:

Disclaimer: Boberg Arms does not officially recommend any type of ammunition, nor does it guarantee the performance of any particular type of ammunition since we do not control the manufacturing of ammunition. We highly recommend that you test-fire ammunition at the range before carrying it for self-defense.

Known Incompatible:
Atlanta Arms - any of their ammo (according to them)
Aguila 124gr FMJ (reported to jam 5-10% of the time, 1 hard primer report)
Bitterroot Valley Ammunition (BVAC reloads) 115gr (2 separations in 150 rounds)
Blazer Brass (5 separations in 6 magazines)
Black Hills +P 115gr (can be over-crimped - little case mouth for magazine to register on)
Blazer Aluminum Case (2 separations in 9 shots)
CorBon +P 115gr, 125gr JHP (separations and stovepipes)
Estate (possibly made in same factory as Federal Champion) (separations)
Federal Champion (separations in batches prior to summer of 2010 as well as 1/12)
Federal Range and Target 115gr FMJmultiple separations reported
Glaser (Dakota) reportedly crimps all their ammo subpar but note report below of specific grain compatibility
Hornady 125gr HAP (2 bullet shift/FTF in 21 rounds, improved after break-in)
Independence 115gr FMJ (2 separations in 2 magazines)
Independence 124gr FMJ (1 separation in a case of 50)
MagTech Guardian gold 115gr jhp that separated 1 in 7 times.
MFS Russian Zinc Plated Steel Case 115gr (extra rounds ejected)
Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP(bullet shift reported)
Sellier and Bellot 115gr and 124gr (Hard Primers but works well with 7.5lb trigger spring or stronger, 1 reported FTF with fully loaded mag)
Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P (1 separation in 85 rounds)
Speer Lawman 115gr, 124gr FMJ (multiple reports of separations, FTF)
Tula Steelcase 115gr (Hard Primers)
Winchester Silver Tips 115gr (1 separation malfunction in a case of 50)
Winchester SXZ9 115gr JHP (FTF)

Known Compatible:
Aguila
115gr FMJ
American Eagle
115gr and 124gr (1 FTE reported) and 147gr FMJ
Flat Point 115gr and 147gr FMJ
Black Hills
115gr +P - see possible over crimp issue above
124gr JHP
124gr +P
Subsonic 147gr JHP
Brown Bear
115gr FMJ
Buffalo Bore
+P 147gr
Corbon
+P 90gr
PowR Ball +P 100gr
+P 115gr DPX
Federal
Classic Hi Shok 115gr JHP (3 separations from an old 1990's batch)
Guard Dog 105gr EFMJ
Premium HST +P 124gr
Premium Hydra-Shok 124 gr, 147gr JHP, 147gr +P
Premium Personal Defense Hydra-Shok JHP 124gr, 135gr and 147gr
Range and Target 115gr FMJ
Fiocci
147gr JHP
115gr FMJ
Georgia Arms
"Canned Heat" 115gr FMJ
Glaser
Pow'rBall 100gr +P JHP
Hirtenberger
100gr JSP
Hornady
Critical Defense 115gr FTX JHP
Critical Duty 135gr +P
TAP FPD 124gr and 147gr
XTP 115gr
Liberty Ammunition
Ultra Defense/USM4 50gr +P Fragmenting HP
Magtech
147gr Flat FMC
115gr FMJ
First Defense 92.6gr Solid Copper Hollow Point
Guardian Gold 115gr +P JHP
On Target
115gr FMJ
PMC
115gr JHP
Bronze 115gr, 124gr FMJ
124gr FMJ
ProLoad
+P 124gr JHP
Prvi Partizan
158gr FMJ
RBCD
Performance Plus Platinum 60gr Total Fragmenting Soft Point
Remington
Golden Saber 124gr JHP
Golden Saber Bonded 124gr +P
UMC 115gr MC and 124gr MC
UMC Leadless 124gr and 147gr
UMC Target 115gr MC and 124gr MC (1 report of FTF 10 rounds in 50)
RWS
85gr Copper Matrix NTF
124gr RN
Speer
Gold Dot 124gr JHP or 147gr
Gold Dot +P 147gr JHP
Gold Dot GDHP 124gr
Gold Dot Short Barrel 124gr GDHP

Tulammo
115gr Polymer-coated Steel Case FMJ (steel casing not recommended during break-in)

Underwood
115gr +P+ reported compatible but beware theoretical wear issues

Winchester:
NATO 124gr, 147gr FMJ
PDX1 Defender Bonded 124gr JHP +P (Partial separations reported - bullet shift prior to firing), 147gr OK
Personal Protection 115gr and 147gr JHP
Ranger 124gr, 127 +P
Ranger Bonded 124gr +P
SXT HP
White Box 115gr and 124gr Bulk FMJ

Wolf
115gr FMJ
Gold

Range report #1:

Had only about an hour with the Boberg today, first range trip. I took the ShotMAXX wrist watch shot-timer, so I was trying to do double duty; could have been more efficient.

I didn't do much shooting, put rounds through this ammo (all worked well unless otherwise indicated):

Federal Train and Defend ammo, 115gr
Herter's FMJ 115gr (Russian, steel case)
PMC Bronze FMJ 115gr
Winchester Super unleaded encapsulated FMJ 147gr
Lellier & Bellot FMJ 115gr
Freedom Munitions 115gr - first cartridge fired, second cartridge separated by claw
Military Balistics Industries 124gr (factory reloads) - first cartridge fired second cartridge separated by claw (Boberg might call them tongs).

Then after clearing, tried to chamber a cartridge and it jammed. The live cartridge would not go completely into chamber, would not extract either. Removed magazine and tried to work slide, it would not budge; ended up having to force the slide shut, it chambered properly, pulled trigger and it fired properly.


Note: I did not clean gun before shooting because it appeared relatively clean and already lubricated. There was a note from Boberg that says: "Due to the high pressure and heat generated in the area that the barrel and unlock block interface, a quality anit-seize is needed at these points. Two small, pea sized daubs should be applied at the points shown on the image." I don't have any anti-seize, so I didn't want to mess with it. I don't think any of the issues I encountered had anything to do with the cleanliness or lubrication of the gun.

Impressions:

The fit and finish of the gun is fantastic, it's like a miniature work of art; absolutely perfect machining in every way I can determine, I've never owned a gun this nice.

I read a lot about how the gun was designed to be lower recoil, I didn't notice any difference between this and a similar sized gun, say the Kahr MK9 (all steel version of the PM9 that is very popular).

The 'bull-pup' like shape of the gun seemed to really bump against the knuckle of my thumb. I like to get as high of a grip as possible, and felt like the shape/angle of the rear part of the frame was pushing my hand down, specifically on my knuckle. While firing, I use a very tight grip and if I shot it without it being aligned with my forearm, I really felt it on my knuckle. As long as I grip it perfectly, it isn't an issue. I noticed when another fellow shot it, he let his support hand index finger go in front of the trigger guard. I had to point out that the end of the barrel is barely past the trigger guard. He seemed a bit novice and I had to give him some pointers on his grip in general. He also struggled with the trigger and used two fingers to shoot it.

I found the trigger reasonably strong. Manual says it's 7.5 pounds, it feels every bit of it. They do sell a 6 pound trigger spring option, and a 9 pound spring option. I read that the lighter spring can cause light strikes on some hard primers like Lellier & Bellot, I had no issue with the L&B I shot today. I will get the lighter spring and try it for myself in the future. It has a long trigger stroke, and a very long reset. A lot of people won't like this, I don't mind so much, as I'm a fan of Kahr, and their trigger is also a bit long, but not as long as this Boberg. When slowly releasing the trigger, you can hear and feel, what seems to be a reset, but if you pull the trigger it won't budge, until you let the trigger go back to it's fully reset position. This was a bit of an issue when wearing gloves, and when trying to shoot fast. Because of the long trigger and to a lesser degree, relatively moderate recoil I could not shoot this gun nearly as fast. It's perfectly adequate, but not as much fun to shoot as I had hoped.

The gun is rated for +P, and to be shot a lot. I will be shooting this one a lot, and keeping track of how it does over time. Most people that might want to buy this gun would carry it a lot and shoot it very little. There are not many holsters for it yet, I'm speaking with a friend about the possibility of him making one for it. Once you know what ammo works and what doesn't, I believe this could be a very decent carry gun.

Sights are very conventional three dot; they do sell do-it-yourself after market night sights. Although I didn't bench test it, the gun seemed very accurate, I typically shot as well or a little better with it than another gun of it's size.

It has a very interesting, flush to frame, take down lever that can also be used to lock the slide open. By design the gun doesn't lock open, not even on the last round, they want you working the slide. A lot of defensive shooting schools want you to not trust the slide-lock and 'rack the slide' so this goes along with that philosophy of use.


Magazines: It comes with two, they hold 7+1 in chamber, both magazines are identical and come with plastic buttplate, no follower. I read that the design of the spring and lack of follower enable this magazine a maximum capacity of 7 vice 6 commonly found in other single stack magazines of the same size. The other remarkable thing is that it seems like you load the magazine backwards, so looking at a loaded magazine the primer end of the round is open and sticking slightly up, as you normally see the bullet.

It is very difficult to accidentally set off a round, but disconcerting having the primer exposed like that; I would never carry a loaded magazine in a pocket with anything else in it. The last few rounds are more difficult to load than any other magazine I've ever loaded; in part because of the spring pressure and because you have to use the corner of the round you are trying to load to push down on the round corner of the last loaded round. An empty magazine in the gun actually rattles a bit, but a loaded magazine barely moves and no rattle. The baseplate of the magazine has a tiny lip on it, that helps with the grip. I have small hands and I can barely get three fingers on the grip, anyone with large hands will only be able to get two fingers on the grip. The size of the grip was one of the features I was really looking forward too, I wish it were just a tad larger; maybe in the future they will make butt-plates that will give another quarter inch or so. The magazine release is relatively small compared to other guns and because it is flush with the frame, you have to very deliberately push it in to get it to release the magazine. A little slower to reload and requires more training, but the good part about that is that it is very unlikely to accidentally release your magazine.

I called the Lead gun-smith at Boberg, just to see if he would answer on a Sunday afternoon; no luck. Friendly enough voice message giving me a couple email addresses and option to leave message, I'm confident the service is excellent. I was hoping to ask him about the anti-seize recommendation, and discuss my jam. I'm going to have to add a small rubber/plastic hammer to my range bag. Thankfully there were some guys at the range better prepared than I.

The hammer is really unique as well. It's essentially a little flap, that comes back and smacks the firing pin assembly every time it fires, being double action only.




Good articles:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/boberg-xr9-s/
http://americanhandgunner.com/boberg-xr9-5-pistol/
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/eric-nelson/gun-review-boberg-xr9-s-update/
http://blog.vec.com/2012/03/13/boberg-xr9-s-theory-of-operation/

This is the ammo I plan to try next:
(All available at Walmart next trip)

TulAmmo steel case 115gr FMJ
PPU FMJ 115gr
PerFecta FMJ, brass case, 115gr
ZQI NATO, 123gr FMJ

It's very small, closest in size comparison is probably the Kahr PM9:

Range report #2:

I took a buddy (former AFOSI agent) and his 18 year old son out shooting yesterday. In total he got to try about 15 handguns, with me coaching him on fundamentals of marksmanship and safety. I pointed out unique features of each and asked him what he liked and didn't like about each. I asked him how it felt, how complicated it seemed, and what he thought about the recoil. He was a lefty, so working the mechanics of each was a bit different and a chore. Since he was a relatively new shooter, I had to figure it out left handed; I need to bone up on what the recommended lefty way is for the most popular guns. If anyone has any advice, appreciated. Several times it was just too tough, and he would switch to his right hand, work the gun, then go back to his left hand to shoot. I can shoot 'fairly well' with my left hand, but I work it with my right; I need to practice that more...

Hey - the Boberg, back on topic. Anyhow, I let him and his dad shoot it with ammo that I knew worked. And the gun worked flawlessly. One spent shell hit the son on the head and he mentioned it. I said - that happens sometimes with most guns, that's why I wear a hat when I shoot.

Of all the guns he shot, he liked the CZ 75 P07 (Duty) the best; and he felt the recoil of the Boberg was the lightest! I did start him with some .22LR's and I'm sure he excluded those from consideration. He also shot the very soft shooting FN 5.7; and felt the Boberg had even less recoil than that. I didn't tell him until after that Boberg argues that their gun is very low recoil, I guess he proved them right. I need to shoot it more to have an opinion.

So I finally decided to clean the Boberg, I took it apart and it was filthy! I think it was the anti-seize gunk all over. I haven't fired it much, might have also been unspent gunpowder from the previous shells that were ripped open, anyway it was nasty. I'm not going to shoot it again until I have some anti-seize to put on it per the manual. Where do you find that stuff?

Anyone interested in my review of this gun?

Well, I found it interesting.

Ever since I first heard about the Boberg, I've more or less lusted after one. Now they've made it worse, with 9mm and 45ACP options, and varying barrel lengths. I can't afford one of each; I can't afford one at all, at this time, but I'd sure like one.

Thanks for your efforts, obviously a labor of love. Fine review, IMO, of a fine pistol.

(I'd also been interested in a Rohrbaugh, but I've been put off by constant reports of problems with bits of stuff jamming the action; sounds like the tolerances are too tight. A thousand-dollar pistol for CCW that can't be relied on to go bang when you really need it is something I really don't need.)

All you need now is a Rhino and your collection will be complete :-)

I'd love to have a Rhino. Now you wanna talk bore axis

Rhino for a Dino? :-)

I received some anti-seize the other day, will clean and lube per owners manual before any more testing.

On my list of preferences for a defensive handgun, I'm going to bump up the value of a firearm that's easy to take apart and maintain. This one loses points in this regard.

I've got an XR9-L. So far it has 700 rounds with six different ammo brands, 115/124/147, +p and standard. It has had two FTF from a box of Tula steel that also produced FTF in my super reliable CZ. No separations so far. It is pricey, but certainly not a gimick. It is a super smooth recoil. I don't find it lighter than my CZ or P99, but it is a smoother feel. The grip is ideal to me.

I've had numerous 9mm pistols that were not able to achieve 698/700 reliability. Plus, while it may not matter to its primary purpose, it is also a wonderfull example of top notch machining and finish work. A beautiful gun to hold.

How weird is it to have your finger so close to the muzzle?

Still evaluating the Boberg. A good friend sent me this article about the Boberg yesterday: http://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/one-fatal-flaw-the-boberg-xr9-s-9mm/

The technical points in the article are true, however, the author admits all his malfunctions were user error. But when it does 'cease up' it is a major ordeal to correct. Having to bang a pistol that costs over a grand to fix it is not a good experience. But admittedly, I am intentionally trying ammo that is not recommended and pushing it beyond its documented limits with regard to cleaning and using special 'anti-cease' grease.

At this point, if the gun were properly cleaned, applied with the proper grease, and ammo known to be 100% reliable; I would consider this an excellent carry gun, mostly due to its size. However this is a very specialized, boutique gun.

Anyone else with experience on this gun have any comments?

I'm interested in the evaluation, but have had no experience with the pistol or brand. Got my eye on one of these.

I like this pistol, any updates/reviews of this?