HQL denied to to Medical Marijuana Card?

lazarus · Aug 4, 2022

aray said:
I’m very sure there are legalization advocacy groups shilling for a particular position that you could post. Feel free. I’m comfortable letting folks here compare the data and analysis from my reference to whatever you might post in reply. The fact of the matter is that if those tests were accurate, states across the nation would be universally stampeding to adopt them. But that isn’t happening, despite the fact that *everyone* wants this. There is a reason for that…

Someday I hope you will be right. But until then there are two indisputable facts: 1) today NO legal nationwide roadside test exists for THC, and 2) if or until that happens DUI stoners are out on the road, imperiling innocent people’s lives, without facing the same legal consequences for their actions as drunk drivers. This isn’t a hypothetical keyboard-discussion in my family…

That isn't true on your last. Several states have zero tolerance laws. Any level of THC shows up in your blood work from a DUI blood draw, you are going to jail. Full stop. Sure, the issue there is you could have used a week ago and not remotely intoxicated.

10 states have zero tolerance for THC or a metabolite.
3 states have zero tolerance for THC but no restriction on metabolites.
4 states have specific per se limits for THC
1 state (Colorado) has a permissible inference law for THC

traveller · Aug 4, 2022

lazarus said:
That isn't true on your last. Several states have zero tolerance laws. Any level of THC shows up in your blood work from a DUI blood draw, you are going to jail. Full stop. Sure, the issue there is you could have used a week ago and not remotely intoxicated.

10 states have zero tolerance for THC or a metabolite.

3 states have zero tolerance for THC but no restriction on metabolites.

4 states have specific per se limits for THC

1 state (Colorado) has a permissible inference law for THC

The problem with levels is that unlike with alcohol, there is no clear correlation between blood level and psychomotor impairment. Short of a roadside brain biopsy, there is no way to measure the amount of THC active in the brain
at any given time.
Colorados level is set high enough that it really only catches people who finish smoking a joint right before they get into the car. It's a codification of 'hey dude, really not cool if you get in the car stoned', but it's not all that well supported by data.

lazarus · Aug 4, 2022

traveller said:
The problem with levels is that unlike with alcohol, there is no clear correlation between blood level and psychomotor impairment. Short of a roadside brain biopsy, there is no way to measure the amount of THC active in the brain
at any given time.
Colorados level is set high enough that it really only catches people who finish smoking a joint right before they get into the car. It's a codification of 'hey dude, really not cool if you get in the car stoned', but it's not all that well supported by data.

I don't disagree on your analysis of CO.

And yeah, different levels effect people differently. The same argument can be made for alcohol though. Higher is more impairment. But the functional alcoholic would be driving impaired, but probably safe enough at .081 BAC and certainly much safer than the man or woman who never drinks who gets behind the wheel with a .03 BAC. We have to set limits based on "most people".

Part of it is due to illegality, we don't have all that much formal testing. Legalize it, get 1,000 people and do concentrations over time and psychomotor testing and then determine roughly where someone would be impaired and when someone wouldn't be and use those levels.

Beyond that though, most of the other states from my awareness primarily use roadside sobriety tests as a primary indicator. There are ways to determine impairment that isn't just blood/saliva serum concentrations.

Heck, plenty of people drive impaired on legally prescribed prescription medications or even just tired. I do believe we need to do a better job of testing and determining legal standards.

Burt Hammersmith · Aug 4, 2022

Back when I did my HQL in 2020 I remember the last thing on the progress list was medical marajuana, I remember the MSP emailed me and asked if I use medical marajana. No I dont, then that day it was approved.

Anyone else get that call or email?

Occam · Aug 4, 2022

traveller said:
Short of a roadside brain biopsy

Anton Chigurh approves of this plan.

Preach · Aug 4, 2022

Actually Oregon did decriminalize small amounts of cocaine, heroin, LSD and methamphetamine among other drugs. Made it a civil citation as opposed to a criminal offense.

Preach · Aug 4, 2022

lazarus said:
Fairly recently. That doesn't just solve all of the issues that criminalizing it caused from the previous 60+ years.

Also no, drug possession is not decriminalized. Only possession of weed.

Oregon has decriminalized. See above post

Occam · Aug 4, 2022

The only thing about which wild-eyed, zealous proselytizing is allowed here is the 2A. Well, and the sin that is the entire IPA beer industry. But other than that, it's unseemly.

sickpuppyz · Aug 4, 2022

Threeband said:
If someone connects the dots, they could show up at your door to confiscate your guns. Unlikely, but it has happened.

christy20657 said:
DONE!

you should delete all posts that incriminate you in a federal crime. You never know who is sniffing around these boards.

King Chicken · Aug 4, 2022

Shorebilly said:
Back when I did my HQL in 2020 I remember the last thing on the progress list was medical marajuana, I remember the MSP emailed me and asked if I use medical marajana. No I dont, then that day it was approved.

Anyone else get that call or email?

At the time did you have a medical card? Why would they have called you if not?

Burt Hammersmith · Aug 4, 2022

Chicken 1 said:
At the time did you have a medical card? Why would they have called you if not?

Nope. Maybe I didn’t check the box yes or no and they were finding out if I had a card or not.

lazarus · Aug 4, 2022

TheBert said:
I'm a Catholic, I am saved and I am going to Heaven.

:gasoline>fire:

I am a strident humanist and agnostic, and thus doomed by most religions. Fortunately I figure if there is a celestial being or beings, it is arrogance to think we can understand such, and such would also be pretty forgiving that we can't understand it. So I just move along with trying to live my life right by helping those around me.

Plus I can sleep in on Sundays.

TI-tick · Aug 4, 2022

Bob A said:
Um, maybe we can ship them to a foreign land? Australia? Zimbabwe? Somewhere in the middle of the alphabet?

If we ratchet up the punishment scale toward the Saudi level, a lot of crime would be eliminated, as well as the criminals themselves.

Actions ought to have consequences. A consequence of deploring the issue of the poor criminals has been the exacerbation of criminal activity, as most of the real consequences of criminal activity have been eliminated.

We'll eventually get back to more stern methods of dealing with serious misbehavior. It will either be done under the law, or otherwise.

There are a lot more poor people out there than there are criminals. The line that poverty creates criminal behavior is absolute BS. Consider the tire neckties in Africa for criminals.

TI-tick · Aug 4, 2022

lazarus said:
That isn't true on your last. Several states have zero tolerance laws. Any level of THC shows up in your blood work from a DUI blood draw, you are going to jail. Full stop. Sure, the issue there is you could have used a week ago and not remotely intoxicated.

10 states have zero tolerance for THC or a metabolite.

3 states have zero tolerance for THC but no restriction on metabolites.

4 states have specific per se limits for THC

1 state (Colorado) has a permissible inference law for THC

Take a look at CA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_California
And particularly Prop 47: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

Cops don't worry about weed, heck they don't worry about smaller quantities of other junk. Accordingly, there is no consequences and there are feral junkie bums stealing shit all over the state.

Is this your libertarian utopia of decriminalizing drugs?
It's not working out so well.

Again, move to CA as it appears your thought are in line with the states.

Bob A · Aug 4, 2022

TI-tick said:
There are a lot more poor people out there than there are criminals. The line that poverty creates criminal behavior is absolute BS. Consider the tire neckties in Africa for criminals.

Oh, I know that. Just riffing on the British solution to their 18th-19th century crime problems, threw in Africa because it's so civilised there, as you noted. Saudi for the deterrence of petty crime.

I've been away from the DC Metro area for two weeks, and the change has been remarkable. So much less pressure, so much less heat & humidity, and so much less Wokeness. (Although it is there, but easier to avoid).

It would be nice to start holding people responsible for their actions again; that worked reasonably well once on a time. Not perfect, of course, but it did create a comfortable and reasonably sane society. It will be missed, by those who remember.

Burt Hammersmith · Aug 4, 2022

The real problem lies in the catering to these bums who get doped up and sit around begging money and being worthless. If we had a real spine in this country we would tell them no work no eat and let them starve to death.

Not saying this is right but If a man goes to work, pays his taxes, takes care of his family etc, then comes home and smokes drugs or drinks booze, is it right for the government make his decision illegal?

TI-tick · Aug 4, 2022

Shorebilly said:
The real problem lies in the catering to these bums who get doped up and sit around begging money and being worthless. If we had a real spine in this country we would tell them no work no eat and let them starve to death.

Not saying this is right but If a man goes to work, pays his taxes, takes care of his family etc, then comes home and smokes drugs or drinks booze, is it right for the government make his decision illegal?

https://news.yahoo.com/really-struggling-why-younger-men-085052140.html

lazarus · Aug 4, 2022

TI-tick said:
Take a look at CA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_California
And particularly Prop 47: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_California_Proposition_47

Cops don't worry about weed, heck they don't worry about smaller quantities of other junk. Accordingly, there is no consequences and there are feral junkie bums stealing shit all over the state.

Is this your libertarian utopia of decriminalizing drugs?
It's not working out so well.

Again, move to CA as it appears your thought are in line with the states.

The issue is a lot of times cops would get people on minor drug possession charges because they couldn't get them on the charges that they were pretty sure they were guilty of, or in some cases just PLANT drugs on people they "knew" were committing crimes. Heck, I'd bet probably the majority of people who have had crap planted on them are criminals. But that isn't how our justice system should work. People should get charged with the crimes they do commit.

One of the consequences of decriminalizing possession is that people committing or accused of committing other crimes can't be gigged on minor possession crimes and taken off the streets for that.

Of course, on the other hand, plenty of other people who are just recreational users and not otherwise criminals are also arrested, charged, and convicted.

It is part of the reason a lot of police organizations and departments don't want constitutional carry. Because handgun possession charges is a good way to get bad people off the streets who are committing other crimes they can't catch them on.

Beyond that, that doesn't address the fact that in CA, it is still a crime to operate a motor vehicle under the influence of THC. Which is what I was addressing, was the claim that legalizing weed means people can drive stoned with no consequences. Which is false, all states if you cause an accident while stoned, you can be held accountable. And some states have zero tolerance laws where ANY amount of THC in your system is an automatic DUI, whether you appear impaired or not. Or caused an accident or not.

Non-zero tolerance states, pretty much the only way someone is getting off driving while under the influence of THC or other drugs is if the defense can show that the defendant did not cause the accident (and would likely not be a defense in any state with a zero-tolerance law).

lazarus · Aug 4, 2022

Shorebilly said:
The real problem lies in the catering to these bums who get doped up and sit around begging money and being worthless. If we had a real spine in this country we would tell them no work no eat and let them starve to death.

Not saying this is right but If a man goes to work, pays his taxes, takes care of his family etc, then comes home and smokes drugs or drinks booze, is it right for the government make his decision illegal?

Dunno. But for the bums, I am pretty sure Jesus wouldn't decide they should just starve because they have addiction or mental health problems and can't work. Even those true criminals.

Matthew 25:34-40
Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’

"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'"

At any rate, some people just can't be helped to the point they can contribute to society. But as a country, we can manage to help everyone who needs it and is willing to accept the help. Sometimes we don't make that easy and sometimes we don't offer the help at all.

ADR · Aug 4, 2022

lazarus said:
The issue is a lot of times cops would get people on minor drug possession charges because they couldn't get them on the charges that they were pretty sure they were guilty of, or in some cases just PLANT drugs on people they "knew" were committing crimes. Heck, I'd bet probably the majority of people who have had crap planted on them are criminals. But that isn't how our justice system should work. People should get charged with the crimes they do commit.

One of the consequences of decriminalizing possession is that people committing or accused of committing other crimes can't be gigged on minor possession crimes and taken off the streets for that.

Of course, on the other hand, plenty of other people who are just recreational users and not otherwise criminals are also arrested, charged, and convicted.

It is part of the reason a lot of police organizations and departments don't want constitutional carry. Because handgun possession charges is a good way to get bad people off the streets who are committing other crimes they can't catch them on.

Beyond that, that doesn't address the fact that in CA, it is still a crime to operate a motor vehicle under the influence of THC. Which is what I was addressing, was the claim that legalizing weed means people can drive stoned with no consequences. Which is false, all states if you cause an accident while stoned, you can be held accountable. And some states have zero tolerance laws where ANY amount of THC in your system is an automatic DUI, whether you appear impaired or not. Or caused an accident or not.

Non-zero tolerance states, pretty much the only way someone is getting off driving while under the influence of THC or other drugs is if the defense can show that the defendant did not cause the accident (and would likely not be a defense in any state with a zero-tolerance law).

Share your ACTUAL EXPERIENCES/FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of these events. Not from some documentary, not from some forum, not your buddy's cousin's boo, actual first hand knowledge as in - You've witnessed it and have no doubts.

I'm not saying it's never happened, couldn't happen, doesn't happen - I'm just f#@king tired of people throwing a bunch of sh!t at the wall in lengthy posts claiming events as widespread facts. If you're going to claim it - share it.

HQL denied to to Medical Marijuana Card?

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