#4 buck shot

[JoeRinMD]

Here's a test of #4 Buck shooting through multiple sheets of drywall:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

From 12 feet away, it penetrated 6 sheets and the pellets bounced off the 7th. This is the test apparatus:

 

[MikeTF]

When a shotgun was my HD gun, I agonized over ammo. It was a waste of time. I went out to the range and used a patterning board. 00 buck and slugs had the same patterns for the maximum distance in my house. I prefer slugs for HD, if I were to use a shotgun. There's a reason why MD only allows slugs for deer hunting.

 

[fabsroman]

always since I have a few buckets full of it. and I hope to never have an intruder but I believe in being prepared. but I should take her out and run a few thru her.

The moment you cycle the action or you pull the trigger, your bedside shotgun no longer has 9 rounds of #4 buckshot in it, even if there is a bucket of ammo sitting right next to it. Even if you are the fastest reloader in the world, you will still be down to 8 rounds in the gun for a couple nano-seconds. Hence, the reason ALWAYS is almost ALWAYS false. lol

 

[fabsroman]

Here's a test of #4 Buck shooting through multiple sheets of drywall:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/

From 12 feet away, it penetrated 6 sheets and the pellets bounced off the 7th. This is the test apparatus:

Thanks Joe. Looks like #4 buckshot is going to go through a couple rooms regardless. #00 will probably go through one more room. Neither is optimal penetration wise for my house because my bedroom is right next to my kids' bedrooms. Then, the house is 4 rooms from one side to the other, so any type of buckshot is probably going through the entire house.

Then, #4 buckshot is not optimal for penetration. What a mess. I'm just hoping that nobody ever breaks into my house.

 

[teratos]

I would not trust the life of my family to #4. Low penetration, not enough major trauma/energy transfer to stop someone. Remember, boys and girls, the name of the game is energy transfer into tissues to overwhelm the central nervous system and drop the threat in his tracks. I keep 00 Buck in my HD shotgun. If #4 were all that, why don't police and military use it? Probably because it doesn't do what they want it to.

 

[mopar92]

Thanks Joe. Looks like #4 buckshot is going to go through a couple rooms regardless. #00 will probably go through one more room. Neither is optimal penetration wise for my house because my bedroom is right next to my kids' bedrooms. Then, the house is 4 rooms from one side to the other, so any type of buckshot is probably going through the entire house.

Then, #4 buckshot is not optimal for penetration. What a mess. I'm just hoping that nobody ever breaks into my house.

For about $400 ish bucks you could "armor up" your house and fields of fire that lead into kids rooms.

 

[fabsroman]

I would not trust the life of my family to #4. Low penetration, not enough major trauma/energy transfer to stop someone. Remember, boys and girls, the name of the game is energy transfer into tissues to overwhelm the central nervous system and drop the threat in his tracks. I keep 00 Buck in my HD shotgun. If #4 were all that, why don't police and military use it? Probably because it doesn't do what they want it to.

Or, possibly because they do not give a damn who is on the other side of the wall when they pull the trigger because their loved ones are at home asleep nice and cozy in bed. Completely different between law enforcement breaching into somebody else's house and me having to fire off rounds in my own house.

Have to ask them what they use at home to defend themselves and their loved ones.

I understand the issue, and currently have Remington copper sabots and barnes expander sabots for the shotgun. Of course, I know that these rounds will go through the entire house without a problem. I recovered one of the rounds from a deer I shot quartering away. Broke her rear hip and front shoulder, and it was lodged just underneath the hide on the far shoulder. She dropped like a ton of bricks and rolled down the hill she was going up. I also understand how deadly these sabots are because the amount of liquefied organs that came out of her chest cavity was insane. Actually, disgusting.

 

[fabsroman]

For about $400 ish bucks you could "armor up" your house and fields of fire that lead into kids rooms.

Alright, I am all ears on this and wondering how much of my time it will also take. The other issue is whether the kids are always in their rooms. Kind of like why I have guns in safes throughout the house because there is no guarantee that I will be in my bedroom when somebody decides to break in. However, if I can insulate my kids' rooms for $400, I'd be willing to do it. I think you know how my house is laid out, so shoot me a text, pm, or e-mail on what I would need to do.

 

[teratos]

Or, possibly because they do not give a damn who is on the other side of the wall when they pull the trigger because their loved ones are at home asleep nice and cozy in bed. Completely different between law enforcement breaching into somebody else's house and me having to fire off rounds in my own house. Have to ask them what they use at home to defend themselves and their loved ones. I understand the issue, and currently have Remington copper sabots and barnes expander sabots for the shotgun. Of course, I know that these rounds will go through the entire house without a problem. I recovered one of the rounds from a deer I shot quartering away. Broke her rear hip and front shoulder, and it was lodged just underneath the hide on the far shoulder. She dropped like a ton of bricks and rolled down the hill she was going up. I also understand how deadly these sabots are because the amount of liquefied organs that came out of her chest cavity was insane. Actually, disgusting.

In my house we have a plan for intruders. The kids are to go to very specific areas in their rooms. These areas are in the places least likely to be in the trajectory of a shot. Of course, this won't work with very young children. We talk about our plan. I may have to do some middle-of-the-night drills soon.

 

[fabsroman]

In my house we have a plan for intruders. The kids are to go to very specific areas in their rooms. These areas are in the places least likely to be in the trajectory of a shot. Of course, this won't work with very young children. We talk about our plan. I may have to do some middle-of-the-night drills soon.

We have a plan too. Thing is, the best laid plans of mice and men do not always work.

For instance, what the heck happens if the intruder comes in in the middle of the day on a Saturday and my wife and a daughter are in the kitchen, my son is in the bathroom, my other daughter is watching TV in the living room, and I am in my office working. I have a gun available, but there is almost no shot that would not endanger one of them. I can access firearms from almost every end and level of the house, as can my wife. Thing is, we would need to know where everybody else is and everybody else would need to know where we are and where the intruder is.

Doing drills to cover all scenarios of intruders at all times of the day would be pretty involved. We have the middle of the night intruder, everybody is in bed, scenario covered, but there are just so many other possible combinations.

 

[teratos]

Everyone hits the floor. Best thing I could come up with. I know where I can and can't shoot.

 

[rdc]

In my house we have a plan for intruders. The kids are to go to very specific areas in their rooms. These areas are in the places least likely to be in the trajectory of a shot. Of course, this won't work with very young children. We talk about our plan. I may have to do some middle-of-the-night drills soon.

I won't comment on the validity of putting your family through middle of the night emergency drills but...... My wife and I had a resonably well thought out plan. A plan we both knew bit hadn't "acted out" . We "knew" it but never rehearsed it. About a year ago our alarm went off about 3 am. That plan went to shit under stress.
Repetition. Repetition. Repetition. It sounds cliche but train like you fight. Fight like you train.

 

[fabsroman]

I won't comment on the validity of putting your family through middle of the night emergency drills but...... My wife and I had a resonably well thought out plan. A plan we both knew bit hadn't "acted out" . We "knew" it but never rehearsed it. About a year ago our alarm went off about 3 am. That plan went to shit under stress.
Repetition. Repetition. Repetition. It sounds cliche but train like you fight. Fight like you train.

I agree. The best laid plans of mice and men go to crap once put into play.

 

[fabsroman]

Everyone hits the floor. Best thing I could come up with. I know where I can and can't shoot.

That actually sounds good. I think I am going to use it, even for an at night scenario. Even if the 2 year old is up and running around, she isn't but 2 feet tall. The 8 year old will need to get out of the bunk bed and onto the floor though. I think she would be able to understand that.

 

[mopar92]

Okay very simple up-armoring of house plan.
First get reflective tape and place approximately 6" strips at the top of the doorway. This will allow you at a glance to see if anyone has breached the room. No one looks at the tops of doorways and its impossible to reset them from inside and behind the door. This plan only works from inside the house, as outside entrance is still possible but can be deterred in other ways.

Second Goodwill, and thrift stores often have CHEAP 25 cent book sections. Buy (or build a cheap bookcase) and get one section in front of one room and one directly behind it with a 3/8" steel plate secured to the back of one bookcase preferably the one in front.

Third have the kids heads away from the bookcases. Any bullet once deflected, or influenced by an outside force is unpredictable but moving vitals away from cover is always a good idea (Pat Rogers had a good article somewhere about crowding cover and getting hit by bullets "skipping" off of it.

Fourth, look up rice paddy prone. You're fit, I can do it you can do it, we're gonna use simple physics to help us. When an object is in motion, it wants to stay in motion and by changing the initial angle we increase the chance of the projectile having an upward trajectory. Better the bullet exits the house and you patch the roof then a round goes through a wall chest height.

 

[rico903]

Well, a lot more info than I anticipated when I originally posted. Living alone in a condo, with concrete between me and the neighbors, and only one entrance, #4 Buckshot will be my choice. Also have a handful of old Remingtion rifled slugs should the need arise.

 

[Biggfoot44]

#4B was/ is semi-popular for LE/ MIL use.

Assume any shotgun loading will penetrate interior walls.

In areas of the country where they have real winters , there have been cases of #4 Buck being stopped/ severely slowed down by multiple layers of heavy clothing and leather or canvas outer jackets, at 40yds or so. Actual indoor distances will usually be fine.

The reduced penetration aspect refers to the penetration of the shots that hit a felon. #4 Buck is unlikely to fully penetrate an adult human , where 00Buck often will.

If you restrict to in home HD instead of accross the yard and down the driveway , 4Buck will be fine. If you want to exclusively use slugs , I won't agrue , some experienced people I respect feel likewise. But my HD shotguns will continue to have 00Buck , at least until I physically find some #1 Buck tactical loads.

And I understood that his shotgun would always have that number of #4Buck loaded * when loaded in preperation for HD *.

 

[Magnumite]

"If #4 were all that, why don't police and military use it? "

Law enforcement is a different mission than home defense. There are more factors to consider such as distance, penetration through vehicles, industrial grade buildings (block, metal fabrication...)

 

[Pinecone]

One of these days I think I am going to shoot a piece of drywall at 20 feet with a load of bird shot with a cylinder choke and see what the heck happens. Might even set up several sheets of drywall to see what the amount of penetration is.

Already been done:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

#4 Buck has some penetration issues with heavy winter clothing. So not a good all around HD round.

#1 Buck is better. Better balance of # of pellets with good, but not too much, penetration. But hard to find, I have had some on back order for over a year.

 

[Augie]

Cabelas has #1 Remington buck in stock.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoo..._SEQ_104567580?WTz_st=GuidedNav&WTz_stype=GNU