Am I Too Cynical? Expect Too Much? Experience with Range Lying

[rob.mwp]

Good day all... went to a local range last week for some 4th sales and some firing, found out I do not really like indoor ranges..... or large groups of people for that matter (I already knew that though!!). Something that happened has been bothering me. Maybe I'm stretching here?

Walked in and they had a desk with all their different classes and someone to talk to. I knew beforehand by what's posted here and elsewhere that to get the FL W&C that I needed to do fingerprints, verify my MD HQL, and pay the tax. I wanted to see what all they offered. I asked the guy at the desk if I had to take the FL class to get the W&C (which is expensive) if I already had MD? He looked me dead in my eye paused for a second and said "yes Sir, you absolutely need the class". I thought maybe the class included the FL fees (which would have been fine), so I asked and of course the answer was no. So basically it's charge me to sit through another class (MD was enough class for me thank you), and them do my fingerprints and I still pay FL for everything they want? At that point well over $220. No thanks.

Now maybe I try to hold people to a higher caliber (pun intended. If you're touting your business based on what this country is supposed to stand for I would think trust and honor are among those qualities? Am I expecting too much?

Full disclosure, this guy taught our (my wife and I) HQL class (open class, probably 80+ people). I really liked him, funny, attentive. Seemed very up front and honest at the time. I also felt like it's a nice shop, but to me lying really chaps my ass. And there's no way given this is his line of expertise that he didn't know what it takes to get the FL W&C.

Am I overreacting? Should this business model of "get as much as you can while you can" just be the way things are now? If I had taken this class finding out later that I really didn't need it I'd be 10x as mad (at my ignorance and at them for the BS). If this guy shook his head and said "No Sir, you need to talk to "Susie Q" over there about getting your fingerprints done" they would have had a patron for life. Over time we would have built a relationship that far exceeded what that silly class cost. Why even put your reputation on the line like that? To me dishonesty says a LOT about a person. Am I the only one?

 

[BurtonRW]

I wonder how they handle the fingerprints. Last time I checked (and I've probably renewed my non-res FL permit 4-5 times by now), a non-res FL renewal required ink fingerprints by a bona fide LEA. Is that no longer the case (which would be amazing)? Do they have a moonlighting LEO using his LEO credentials to stamp the fingerprint cards?

-Rob

 

[rob.mwp]

I wonder how they handle the fingerprints. Last time I checked (and I've probably renewed my non-res FL permit 4-5 times by now), a non-res FL renewal required ink fingerprints by a bona fide LEA. Is that no longer the case (which would be amazing)? Do they have a moonlighting LEO using his LEO credentials to stamp the fingerprint cards?

-Rob

From what I understand they have LEO on site with FL cards to fill out. That's the jist I got.

Edit: I guess that's if you paid for the class, lol

 

[Threeband]

I think you're right to be annoyed and disappointed by his lies. Now you know what you're dealing with with him.

I got my Florida permit long ago, and had the prints done by the Carroll County Sheriff's Department. I never did renew it, because the cost was way too steep- $100, and I haven't expected to go to Florida.

I've also had the Utah permit for years, and that covers pretty much everything Florida does except Florida. Utah renewals are only $25.

Now that Florida has gone Constitutional Carry, you don't really need a Florida permit for Florida. It is easy to get, as you noted, because they accept just about any class, such as the Maryland HQL. You might check out Arizona, too. Similar coverage and I don't think they require a special class. Utah, of course, does require a special class.

Handgunlaw.us is my primary source for state-specific information.

 

[eruby]

.

Just remember, people are bastard coated bastards, with bastard filling

If you can make it to the MDS meetup at Pub Dog in Westminster on the 23rd, it will be my pleasure to buy you the beverage of your choice (hard or soft)

https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/mds-at-pub-dog-westminster-out-july-23rd.276555/

A Cuban cigar is also on offer

I know you don't like crowds

I don't like people but I hide it well

 

[rob.mwp]

I think you're right to be annoyed and disappointed by his lies. Now you know what you're dealing with with him.

I got my Florida permit long ago, and had the prints done by the Carroll County Sheriff's Department. I never did renew it, because the cost was way too steep- $100, and I haven't expected to go to Florida.

I've also had the Utah permit for years, and that covers pretty much everything Florida does except Florida. Utah renewals are only $25.

Now that Florida has gone Constitutional Carry, you don't really need a Florida permit for Florida. It is easy to get, as you noted, because they accept just about any class, such as the Maryland HQL. You might check out Arizona, too. Similar coverage and I don't think they require a special class. Utah, of course, does require a special class.

Handgunlaw.us is my primary source for state-specific information.

I only wanted FL because it wasn't class specific and it gave me DE. We mostly only travel down the east coast, so it would be nice to bs able to have all those states. I'll have to look harder.. FL is not the end all be all, just searching.

Just remember, people are bastard coated bastards, with bastard filling

If you can make it to the MDS meetup at Pub Dog in Westminster on the 23rd, it will be my pleasure to buy you the beverage of your choice (hard or soft)

https://www.mdshooters.com/threads/mds-at-pub-dog-westminster-out-july-23rd.276555/

A Cuban cigar is also on offer

I know you don't like crowds

I don't like people but I hide it well

I agree, people are bastards... but why. I try to instill in my kids to be honest, be honorable.. what is this world coming to?

I am still trying to figure out what we're doing that weekend. I really do appreciate the offer. I can hide my disdain for large crowds pretty well myself!

 

[Threeband]

I only wanted FL because it wasn't class specific and it gave me DE. We mostly only travel down the east coast, so it would be nice to bs able to have all those states. I'll have to look harder.. FL is not the end all be all, just searching.

I agree, people are bastards... but why. I try to instill in my kids to be honest, be honorable.. what is this world coming to?

I am still trying to figure out what we're doing that weekend. I really do appreciate the offer. I can hide my disdain for large crowds pretty well myself!

For Delaware, check out Arizona. Florida is still a good option: you just need to get the fingerprints. As I said, I got mine from Carroll County Sheriff's Department, but I'm sure someone here can give you suggestions. I dropped Florida because the renewal fee was $100, and I think they wanted fresh fingerprints. My Utah permit covers Delaware.

Here's the Arizona information:

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf

Concealed Weapons and Permits | Department of Public Safety

www.azdps.gov

Arizona might just be the best non-resident permit.


It looks like West Virginia covers Delaware. You need to go to the county sheriff in person to get a permit, though.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf

 

[Mark75H]

The "guy at the front desk" may not know as much as the instructors know. Most places do value your money more than their reputation.

 

[rob.mwp]

For Delaware, check out Arizona. Florida is still a good option: you just need to get the fingerprints. As I said, I got mine from Carroll County Sheriff's Department, but I'm sure someone here can give you suggestions. I dropped Florida because the renewal fee was $100, and I think they wanted fresh fingerprints. My Utah permit covers Delaware.

Here's the Arizona information:

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/arizona.pdf

Concealed Weapons and Permits | Department of Public Safety

www.azdps.gov

Arizona might just be the best non-resident permit.


It looks like West Virginia covers Delaware. You need to go to the county sheriff in person to get a permit, though.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/westvirginia.pdf

Yes Sir, I have to look into it more. Being able to carry from MD to FL the least expensive way would be nice. I'm still doing my research.

The "guy at the front desk" may not know as much as the instructors know. Most places do value your money more than their reputation.

That's the thing, he was an instructor. He absolutely knew. He teaches a bunch of classes there. The look on his face said he knew, he even knew what the fees for FL would cost on top of the class fee.

It's just a shame.

 

[Threeband]

If you have your Maryland W&C, you can carry from Maryland to Florida. Just don't go to Delaware or D.C.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf

 

[rob.mwp]

If you have your Maryland W&C, you can carry from Maryland to Florida. Just don't go to Delaware or D.C.

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf

Understood.. yeah, looking for DE. Thanks though. I'll figure it out.

 

[miles71]

40 plus in a class!? That’s just stupid.

So many good instructor and made to look bad by the crappy ones. Ugh.

TD

 

[rob.mwp]

40 plus in a class!? That’s just stupid.

So many good instructor and made to look bad by the crappy ones. Ugh.

TD

Yeah.. if only I knew then what I know now.

Truth be told I just went along for the ride. It was all my wife's idea. Somewhere along the lines I caught the bug. Since then I've found out about much better avenues to go down.

I think our W&C had 80+ students.. is that nuts?

 

[miles71]

Yeah.. if only I knew then what I know now.

Truth be told I just went along for the ride. It was all my wife's idea. Somewhere along the lines I caught the bug. Since then I've found out about much better avenues to go down.

I think our W&C had 80+ students.. is that nuts?

80 plus is ridiculous and a money grab. When you do your renewal I hope you are able to have a more educational eviroment.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Yeah.. if only I knew then what I know now.

Truth be told I just went along for the ride. It was all my wife's idea. Somewhere along the lines I caught the bug. Since then I've found out about much better avenues to go down.

I think our W&C had 80+ students.. is that nuts?

That screams Freestate Gun Range to me.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

Freestate is a weird ass place, but maybe it's me that's weird. I've been there like twice, most recently a few months ago because I was nearby

I walked in and half the employees were dressed up in battle belts/kit/gear like they were about to play an airsoft game.

I laughed and thought about when I worked part time briefly in retail (home depot) and it would have been like if I walked around with a hard hat on and full tool belt with multimeter, impact driver, etc

 

[AlBeight]

80 plus is ridiculous and a money grab. When you do your renewal I hope you are able to have a more educational eviroment.

My W & C class last August had 180 people. Had I known I’d never have done that. There was all sorts of problems, and dozens of very angry students. The classroom instruction was fine, but the included fingerprinting was an utter fuster cluck, as was the range qualifying day. Live and learn I suppose, I got my permit anyway.

 

[Sundazes]

Yeah.. if only I knew then what I know now.

Truth be told I just went along for the ride. It was all my wife's idea. Somewhere along the lines I caught the bug. Since then I've found out about much better avenues to go down.

I think our W&C had 80+ students.. is that nuts?

That screams Freestate Gun Range to me.

Yup, when I took mine there, I had 80 plus in the class. An absolute money grab.

 

[Boondock Saint]

That screams Freestate Gun Range to me.

My classes last July had 70+ people both days. I had originally signed up for a class very shortly after Bruen when it had like a 12-24 person limit. That number quickly blew up as demand increased. They grabbed the money, for sure.

Freestate is a weird ass place, but maybe it's me that's weird. I've been there like twice, most recently a few months ago because I was nearby

I walked in and half the employees were dressed up in battle belts/kit/gear like they were about to play an airsoft game.

I laughed and thought about when I worked part time briefly in retail (home depot) and it would have been like if I walked around with a hard hat on and full tool belt with multimeter, impact driver, etc

This. A number of the employees dress like they expect to be in combat momentarily and act as if paying customers who aren't on "their level" are only barely worth their valuable time. Not all of the employees are like that, but two specifically come to mind. I live fairly close to the range and in the last year have only been there because I needed the permit class and they were simultaneously the cheapest/fastest/closest option for me, and again to purchase a firearm that I could have likely gotten cheaper elsewhere, but had been given a gift card to FS and decided to kill two birds with one stone.

They're making money hand over fist, presumably, so good for them. I won't be returning any time soon.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

One weekend when I was spending time at SLCFSA, I decided to drive up to Morr Gun Range in Willow Street to check it out.

It's crazy how the vibe is totally different depending where you go and the day of week it is. Walk in and see nobody dressed like they're being solo deployed to Bakhmut for a month. Everyone is (Morr) friendly, dressed in company t shirts and cargo pants.

Both Freestate/Morr have that open concept neo retail thing going for them with the gun shelving/racks/display case so they're both equal there