Am I Too Cynical? Expect Too Much? Experience with Range Lying

[miles71]

Even at the hieght of the demand I limited my courses to 18 max and that was with three other instructors. That's what I feel is safe and educational.

The big weakness for "free lancers" like me is I don't have a range to advertise. It's tough to get the word out but I'll put my course and team up against anyone else.

TD

 

[rob.mwp]

80 plus is ridiculous and a money grab. When you do your renewal I hope you are able to have a more educational eviroment.

You don't know what you don't know. My wife was really interested in getting it and I did it to do something with her... somewhere along the lines I caught the bug and like it a lot.

We were smart(ish) about it, sat up front and took in as much as possible. I learned a lot, but wouldn't repeat the class that way.

That screams Freestate Gun Range to me.

I purposefully left out the name, but you get the picture.

Freestate is a weird ass place, but maybe it's me that's weird. I've been there like twice, most recently a few months ago because I was nearby

I walked in and half the employees were dressed up in battle belts/kit/gear like they were about to play an airsoft game.

I laughed and thought about when I worked part time briefly in retail (home depot) and it would have been like if I walked around with a hard hat on and full tool belt with multimeter, impact driver, etc

That is a perfect analogy! That made me smile, so true. I've also only been there twice... and that'll be it for me. When someone goes from relaying information to pushing a sale I'm out.

The company I work for is very upfront and honest. People like us for it and recommend us even if we're not the least expensive for a project. I'm not the greatest salesmen but I sleep really well at night knowing I did the best job I can do for folks.

My W & C class last August had 180 people. Had I known I’d never have done that. There was all sorts of problems, and dozens of very angry students. The classroom instruction was fine, but the included fingerprinting was an utter fuster cluck, as was the range qualifying day. Live and learn I suppose, I got my permit anyway.

That's about when we did it, maybe Sep. Our class was large, but it never got out of hand, all felt pretty seamless. There weren't any incidents. Fingerprinting was all done while the class was going on and you just tapped the person sitting next to you when you came back.. maybe 10 min?

I have some relatives that live up north that all got it done privately in their own back yard. When I do it again, that'll be the way.

 

[Sundazes]

My classes last July had 70+ people both days. I had originally signed up for a class very shortly after Bruen when it had like a 12-24 person limit. That number quickly blew up as demand increased. They grabbed the money, for sure.



This. A number of the employees dress like they expect to be in combat momentarily and act as if paying customers who aren't on "their level" are only barely worth their valuable time. Not all of the employees are like that, but two specifically come to mind. I live fairly close to the range and in the last year have only been there because I needed the permit class and they were simultaneously the cheapest/fastest/closest option for me, and again to purchase a firearm that I could have likely gotten cheaper elsewhere, but had been given a gift card to FS and decided to kill two birds with one stone.

They're making money hand over fist, presumably, so good for them. I won't be returning any time soon.

Some also wreak of the skunk weed even before it was legal in the state.

 

[rob.mwp]

They're making money hand over fist, presumably, so good for them. I won't be returning any time soon.

I missed your post, sorry.

I'm fine with them turning a profit, just not when you try to manipulate the consumer for said profit. It's dirty... you're supposed to be professional. Build long term relationships based on honesty, not swindle people out of their money.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, Idk.

Some also wreak of the skunk weed even before it was legal in the state.

I don't think there were very many people that were patiently waiting for July 1st, lol. They either did or they didn't.

I never witnessed that at the store, but that's really uncalled for.

 

[Blacksmith101]

Understood.. yeah, looking for DE. Thanks though. I'll figure it out.

Maine non resident will get you Delaware.

Link to Handgun Law's Maine page:

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maine.pdf

Link to Maine Nonresident Application Form:
https://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/sites...t_Concealed_Handguns_Permit_Application_0.pdf

Link to “Laws Relating to permits to Carry Concealed Handguns” for Maine:

https://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/sites/maine.gov.dps.msp/files/inline-files/CFP%20Booklet.pdf

 

[rob.mwp]

Maine non resident will get you Delaware.

Link to Handgun Law's Maine page:

https://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maine.pdf

Link to Maine Nonresident Application Form:
https://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/sites...t_Concealed_Handguns_Permit_Application_0.pdf

Link to “Laws Relating to permits to Carry Concealed Handguns” for Maine:

https://www.maine.gov/dps/msp/sites/maine.gov.dps.msp/files/inline-files/CFP%20Booklet.pdf

I didn't click on the links yet, what's the process / cost? (If you don't mind).

Thanks

 

[INMY01TA]

If you wanted a Fl permit why didn’t you just look at the requirements on their website? I submitted the whole thing except the prints online. My Md W&C training was fine.

 

[rob.mwp]

If you wanted a Fl permit why didn’t you just look at the requirements on their website? I submitted the whole thing except the prints online. My Md W&C training was fine.

I did, I said in my very 1st post "I knew beforehand".

$125 seems kind of steep and it was stated on site the class was "absolutley needed".. which was a bold face lie (this thread was more about the lie than FL permit).

And I'm not really sure what's involved in the class but I told him we already had HQL and W&C (which I think are even offered concurrently now?).

 

[Blacksmith101]

I didn't click on the links yet, what's the process / cost? (If you don't mind).

Thanks

Non resident is $60.00 for four years. The links show what is needed and how to submit. I, like you, am looking for options for Delaware since I live less than a mile from the border.

 

[Mark75H]

I did, I said in my very 1st post "I knew beforehand".

$125 seems kind of steep and it was stated on site the class was "absolutley needed".. which was a bold face lie (this thread was more about the lie than FL permit).

And I'm not really sure what's involved in the class but I told him we already had HQL and W&C (which I think are even offered concurrently now?).

HQL is automatically granted by the state to W&C holders that ask for it. Florida, Maine and Arizona accept your MD W&C certificate as proof of training.

 

[rob.mwp]

HQL is automatically granted by the state to W&C holders that ask for it. Florida, Maine and Arizona accept your MD W&C certificate as proof of training.

We didn't know what we didn't know. My wife was interested and was told HQL 1st then W&C.. so there went 24 hours of my life.

I did learn a lot though, so it wasn't a total loss.

 

[ras_oscar]

I'm not sure the guy was lying. When I went to my MD CCW class the instructors mentioned that if I also filled out the FL permit application there and did a 10 card I could use the same class for both applications., If I went home and thought about it I would need to take a separate Florida class. ( this was before FL went CC) They had a vendor doing 10 cards. I filled out the form and basically got the Florida permit for 50 dollars more than Maryland alone.

 

[rob.mwp]

I'm not sure the guy was lying. When I went to my MD CCW class the instructors mentioned that if I also filled out the FL permit application there and did a 10 card I could use the same class for both applications., If I went home and thought about it I would need to take a separate Florida class. ( this was before FL went CC) They had a vendor doing 10 cards. I filled out the form and basically got the Florida permit for 50 dollars more than Maryland alone.

Dude was an instructor. It's his job to know that the MD live fire counts towards FL permit. He 100% knew. I could see your point if he was new or the law just changed, but he's been there for years.

From a business perspective I get it... makes sense to charge people for 2 classes then just 1 and maybe different fingerprints. It's not how I would do business and it's not something that I appreciate.

You still had to pay the ~ $92 for the FL fee on top of the $50.. correct?

 

[ras_oscar]

I didn't pay for the course twice. I paid for the ten card and the Florida application fee; I don't remember exactly how much, it was over a year ago. If you tell me the FL fee is $92 i believe you. Even if I had been required to pay for the course twice it would have been well worth it to avoid sitting through another class.

 

[rob.mwp]

I didn't pay for the course twice. I paid for the ten card and the Florida application fee; I don't remember exactly how much, it was over a year ago. If you tell me the FL fee is $92 i believe you. Even if I had been required to pay for the course twice it would have been well worth it to avoid sitting through another class.

I understood what you meant... (holy hell I don't want to sit through another class either!). Because my wife and I took the HQL and then the MD W&C we're at 24 HOURS of class time. I also didn't know at the time that you could do W&C and that counts for HQL (or maybe it's that way now whereas before it was not, not sure on that one).

Idk... my feeling was I spent enough money with that outfit, sat through enough classes (and stated that to the gentlemen behind the desk). The very least they could do is be upfront about what was needed to get another state... but instead he tried to push on more. At that point you're a salesman and your interests are biased and sometimes that means not in the best interest of the client. I decline anymore of your services and take my business elsewhere.

To me, a good establishment will lay out all your options and let you make an informed decision. I'm sure there are plenty of gun shops like that... this wasn't one of them. Just seems hypoctrical to stand for rights and the 2A but turn around and manipulate people out of their money. Make sense?

 

[holesonpaper]

Reading through this thread - OP, I feel your anger. That said, I would move on - and you do you. In the firearms community, we've all been provided misinformation at some point. Don't sweat the small stuff.

I had a manager once say, that if they could locate an answer to a question in under 10 seconds on Google, then there shouldn't be a need to ask the question. 10 seconds on Florida's site - and bingo.. Forget whomever and plan your path forward. Wasted energy is wasted energy. Cheers!

 

[rob.mwp]

Reading through this thread - OP, I feel your anger. That said, I would move on - and you do you. In the firearms community, we've all been provided misinformation at some point. Don't sweat the small stuff.

I had a manager once say, that if they could locate an answer to a question in under 10 seconds on Google, then there shouldn't be a need to ask the question. 10 seconds on Florida's site - and bingo.. Forget whomever and plan your path forward. Wasted energy is wasted energy. Cheers!


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Oh I agree 100%, I have moved on. Being new(ish) to guns and the whole idea now that it's easier to get a W&C I was just taken back by the hypocrisy in it all.

On the spot I made the decision to leave and never return. This thread was started a week after it all went down. It has been a good thread, good to know that most people expect some form of decency from their local shop, and after this shop was mentioned it's good to know that I'm not the only one who felt the way I did.

 

[44 Bulldog]

Understood.. yeah, looking for DE. Thanks though. I'll figure it out.

USCCA says you can carry in Delaware with a Md permit

 

[rob.mwp]

USCCA says you can carry in Delaware

Yeah.... with UT, AZ, or FL.. not MD or PA

 

[44 Bulldog]

I guess USCCA app isn't updated, this could get you caught up in a bad situation