Biden Says Beto O’Rourke Will ‘Take Care of the Gun Problem with Me’

[bbrown]

My point was that I support Bernie because some of the policies he proposes to correct the failings of capitalism are desirable, and passing them would not do away with capitalism. Some (maybe most?) of you would label these policies as socialist.

So what is your opinion about Bernie's other policies, such as those regarding Israel? Which of those do you support or not support? Unlike at a Chinese restaurant, you can't pick one from column A, one from column B, etc. It's all or nothing.

 

[Jollyllama]

Jollyllama (didn’t want to quote everything so this thread is n’t a wall of text)

I never mentioned communism, or that I thought it hadn’t been implemented properly. I made it a point to state that I don’t think a socialist structure could work, and I certainly don’t think communism could.

My point was that I support Bernie because some of the policies he proposes to correct the failings of capitalism are desirable, and passing them would not do away with capitalism. Some (maybe most?) of you would label these policies as socialist.

Thanks again. I am just not sure how we would use anything Bernie has suggested to implement partial socialism. He is full-bore socialist. He calls it democratic socialism, but at the end of the day, and the beginning anytime there is governmental takeover of private industry, that is socialism. We have some aspects of it in our current system.

For instance, the USPS is a government entity that runs a business. We also have a number of private sector companies offering the same services. They also received a number of Government tax breaks. However, the USPS is a governmental protected monopoly that is a non-sustainable business practice. It is continually losing money despite being exempt from regulations and government taxes. This would be an example of a (failing) socialist implementation. I don’t claim to be a complete expert on the subject, however if we abolished the USPS do you think this would have a net positive impact where the service was filled by private industry if given the same lack of regulatory oversight and tax exemption? I imagine it would because it would then be for profit and someone (likely like Bezos) would have a vested interest in it being sustainable and as an ancillary organization to support his other ventures. Alternatively will dumping more money into the USPS make it profitable? Likely not, they keep doing that and it continues to lose money.

So using the above illustration I would submit that the failings of capitalism have more to do with over regulation than requiring additional governmental intervention.

So this is where we would disagree on why Bernie is a good option and agree to disagree on the merits of his policies. I certainly don’t intend to try and sway you, only present facts as I see them, as described from the beginning.

He has no record of increasing wealth anywhere outside his own bank account, and absolutely no knowledge of how private industry works. Further we can’t sprinkle a little Bernie on anything, you either get all the Bernie or no Bernie. He has made this abundantly clear for several decades.

If your plan is to hope the Bern only does half of what he says and leaves the other half alone, I would not take that bet even if I thought it had potential merit, which I do not. Again, he has been a committed socialist with a full socialist agenda for decades. Absolute governmental control in the United States requires disarming people so they can’t fight back. There is no way (from everything I have read and experienced) that full on socialism can coexist within the confines of a self-regulated and armed pro-2A society. They run counter to each other at their core, have never been implemented and cannot be implemented.

So my submission is that there is no way to hold a genuine pro-2A stance, and want a little socialism sprinkle to “fix” issues in capitalism. The alternative which has not been tried to the fullest extent, is complete deregulation in a global marketplace. Deregulation existed for a brief period, but as soon as someone was injured by a product, the regulatory guardrails started to be implemented, this has continued to present day. Alternatively, socialism has been tried several times in a multitude of places for over a century, always with the same result; failure and loss of freedom and liberty for the citizens and economic destruction.

That is my point of view and I appreciate the courteous discourse.

 

[Occam]

The issue isn’t whether a full-on socialist like Bernie would somehow be up for just cherry-picking a few of his not-totally-deadly-to-prosperity aspirations. He’s directly advocating for a complete restructuring of American society and its economy. He directly represents an anti-liberty view of human affairs, and would be forming a cabinet, and running an executive branch (including federal law enforcement, the military, border policies, foreign affairs, discretionary spending, and more) in keeping with his solidly socialist aspirations. He’s sending all the signals you need to see that he doesn’t see a single thing wrong with classical communism. He will appoint judges and justices in keeping with his disdain for the constitution’s focus on personal liberties and limited government power. There is no philosophically coherent way to support his world view while also being, for example, pro-2A.

 

[teratos]

The issue isn’t whether a full-on socialist like Bernie would somehow be up for just cherry-picking a few of his not-totally-deadly-to-prosperity aspirations. He’s directly advocating for a complete restructuring of American society and its economy. He directly represents an anti-liberty view of human affairs, and would be forming a cabinet, and running an executive branch (including federal law enforcement, the military, border policies, foreign affairs, discretionary spending, and more) in keeping with his solidly socialist aspirations. He’s sending all the signals you need to see that he doesn’t see a single thing wrong with classical communism. He will appoint judges and justices in keeping with his disdain for the constitution’s focus on personal liberties and limited government power. There is no philosophically coherent way to support his world view while also being, for example, pro-2A.

Agree 100%. Anyone who thinks they are pro-2A or even pro-liberty and votes for Bernie doesn’t understand what they are talking about.

 

[JerseyMike]

Thanks again. I am just not sure how we would use anything Bernie has suggested to implement partial socialism. He is full-bore socialist. He calls it democratic socialism, but at the end of the day, and the beginning anytime there is governmental takeover of private industry, that is socialism. We have some aspects of it in our current system.

For instance, the USPS is a government entity that runs a business. We also have a number of private sector companies offering the same services. They also received a number of Government tax breaks. However, the USPS is a governmental protected monopoly that is a non-sustainable business practice. It is continually losing money despite being exempt from regulations and government taxes. This would be an example of a (failing) socialist implementation. I don’t claim to be a complete expert on the subject, however if we abolished the USPS do you think this would have a net positive impact where the service was filled by private industry if given the same lack of regulatory oversight and tax exemption? I imagine it would because it would then be for profit and someone (likely like Bezos) would have a vested interest in it being sustainable and as an ancillary organization to support his other ventures. Alternatively will dumping more money into the USPS make it profitable? Likely not, they keep doing that and it continues to lose money.

So using the above illustration I would submit that the failings of capitalism have more to do with over regulation than requiring additional governmental intervention.

So this is where we would disagree on why Bernie is a good option and agree to disagree on the merits of his policies. I certainly don’t intend to try and sway you, only present facts as I see them, as described from the beginning.

He has no record of increasing wealth anywhere outside his own bank account, and absolutely no knowledge of how private industry works. Further we can’t sprinkle a little Bernie on anything, you either get all the Bernie or no Bernie. He has made this abundantly clear for several decades.

If your plan is to hope the Bern only does half of what he says and leaves the other half alone, I would not take that bet even if I thought it had potential merit, which I do not. Again, he has been a committed socialist with a full socialist agenda for decades. Absolute governmental control in the United States requires disarming people so they can’t fight back. There is no way (from everything I have read and experienced) that full on socialism can coexist within the confines of a self-regulated and armed pro-2A society. They run counter to each other at their core, have never been implemented and cannot be implemented.

So my submission is that there is no way to hold a genuine pro-2A stance, and want a little socialism sprinkle to “fix” issues in capitalism. The alternative which has not been tried to the fullest extent, is complete deregulation in a global marketplace. Deregulation existed for a brief period, but as soon as someone was injured by a product, the regulatory guardrails started to be implemented, this has continued to present day. Alternatively, socialism has been tried several times in a multitude of places for over a century, always with the same result; failure and loss of freedom and liberty for the citizens and economic destruction.

That is my point of view and I appreciate the courteous discourse.

I disagree but appreciate your explanations and insight!

 

[EDA98]

Strange that most modern socialists are anti gun. Marx fully believed in the common man having weapons. His idea was similar to our 2A. A ruling class can’t take over if the working class is armed. Obviously modern “socialism” isn’t about workers anymore.

 

[letmeoutpax]

Agree 100%. Anyone who thinks they are pro-2A or even pro-liberty and votes for Bernie doesn’t understand what they are talking about.

It's a very simple equation: planned economy will only work if people follow the plan. To make people follow the plan you have to control them. The End.

 

[WildWeasel]

Come and take them Biden/Beto.

I’m a progressive who supports 2A rights, but not a single issue voter and I’ve only recently changed my views on 2A rights. ...

Does the current democratic party appear to have any concern for the 2nd Amendment? Not really.

Congrats on your changed views towards firearms and 2A. That says a lot.

I will agree and sat you're right, the current Democratic party has no concern for the 2A. As in the don't believe it should exist. The only reason the 94 AWB sunset was because Congress couldn't pass a new one, despite multiple attempts, and new attempts have and will continue to be made. The Democrats dream is to make every state like California. And we see that happening as everyone flees the issues they created, while continuing to vote the same. Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Utah. Texas, Arizona, and Nevada are headed in that direction. Then you have draconian states like Maryland, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Illinois. Until firearms are under their control, the other issues are just fluff to get them in office. At least for most Democratic candidates vs most Republican candidates, it is an one issue vote, like it or not. Just not right away.

That said, you'll still find that most Trump supporters are not one issue voters. Trump spoke in support of the March for Life. He supports capitalism, the military, secured borders, police, and foreign policy that helps Americans. I could go on. The only Democrat presidential candidates to support any of those ideals are out, or only getting .1% of the vote.

 

[Sirex]

Make gulags great again.

 

[LeadSled1]

Biden doubles down with O’Rourke.

https://mobile.twitter.com/hollandcourtney/status/1234872677510213632

 

[K31]

Yeah, Joe's gonna make himself more attractive to a national electorate by doubling down on more socialist policies including gun grabbing. That, and surrounding himself with losers like Beta-male.

Funny thing is, Putin, the Chinese, the NORKs, the Iranians, don't think your brain farts are cute Joe, they are salivating at the thought of you being POTUS.

 

[Threeband]

Even if Biden were to win, he would not be the real President: he would be a mere figurehead. The Puppetmasters would pull all his strings.

Funny how no one remarks on what should be a shockingly blatant display of string-pulling and un-democratic machinations which occurred this week. The sudden conversion of Buttigieg and Klobuchar from serious candidates to wild-eyed Biden supporters is right out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Who put the pods under their beds? Who is really running this allegedly free society?

I submit that Trump, flawed as he may be, is the only Resistance, and that is the real reason he faces such deranged opposition.

I find it ironic that so many idealistic opponents of corruption and cronyism are so easily controlled by the corrupt Puppetmaster cronies.

Flawed as he may be, Trump is the only serious Resistance.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

The swamp is real... Somebody water boarded the recently departed candidates with swamp water. They did another superior job.

Joe is a drooling, blithering eejit. The jury is out as to just how immoral he might be but even a Ray Charles can see the guy doesn’t have all his marbles any more. It remains to be seen how much graft he’s guzzled. His son is a repeat and serial loser who has received literal boatloads of money for nothing more than access and privilege. That guy needs to be cooling his heels in ClubFed and his daddy might be considered an accomplice.

Does all this reek? Yep. Three words for you: dee, en, sea. Rotten to the core.

 

[pcfixer]

We don't have a gun problem. We have a Democrat problem. An infestation. And epidemic a liberal disease.

 

[pcfixer]

Even if Biden were to win, he would not be the real President: he would be a mere figurehead. The Puppetmasters would pull all his strings.

Funny how no one remarks on what should be a shockingly blatant display of string-pulling and un-democratic machinations which occurred this week. The sudden conversion of Buttigieg and Klobuchar from serious candidates to wild-eyed Biden supporters is right out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

Who put the pods under their beds? Who is really running this allegedly free society?


I submit that Trump, flawed as he may be, is the only Resistance, and that is the real reason he faces such deranged opposition.

I find it ironic that so many idealistic opponents of corruption and cronyism are so easily controlled by the corrupt Puppetmaster cronies.

Flawed as he may be, Trump is the only serious Resistance.

Got this right.

 

[welder516]

The swamp plays by swamp rules , it is an organized gang and they have dirt on people and if you don't play along they will shovel dirt over you . Don't f-with the powerful they don't play nice and they have friends in media that will run cover and they have whistle blow-hearts in deep government waiting to expose Trump on another fake scandel .

To me they have killed many , run your own list .

 

[Decoy]

Rumor mill is saying that Biden will pick Beto for VP

 

[Occam]

Rumor mill is saying that Biden will pick Beto for VP

Never happen. He might throw Beto into some cabinet position, or make him "gun safety czar" or such, but Biden's VP pick will have to be someone who isn't trapped in an inherently oppressive straight, white, male body. Must check off at least one or two of:

[] Female
[] Other-than-white
[] Other-than-culturally-Christian
[] Nice sniffable hair
[] Bi(den) Curious, if not:
[] L
[] G
[] B
[] T
[] Q
[] ETC

Intersectionality is where it's at. A Latina lesbian, a gay black dude, a Palestinian socialist mom, or such. Biden is ALREADY an incoherent rich white dude. Beto is just another one, and he won't make things happen unless he throws a bone to the Terminally Woke.

 

[rbird7282]

There is definitely a lot of overlap. I can’t really respond without getting into the merits, but other then Bernie’s anti-gun policies and medicare for all I’m pretty much on board with everything else he stands for. I’ll just say that I probably have a different perception of the implications of Bernie identifying as a democratic socialist and how it would affect our capitalist society. I am not a fan of socialism as it has been, or attempted to be, implemented and don’t think it could work in practice. However, I do support policies that some would label “socialist” (whether it is appropriate to do so is a serious debate in and of itself) for the purpose of correcting/mitigating some of the failings of capitalism.



Bottom line is I am not saying I know more than anyone here, that I’m right or try to convince anyone that they are wrong. I posted in this thread to express some frustration/disappointment with the state of the Democratic primary and to remind some of the right-leaning people on here that there are dems/progressives who are pro 2A and this can be a bipartisan issue.

There is no difference between democratic socialism and socialism. “Democratic socialism” is some made up ******** to make it more palatable to the masses and get them to vote for it. It will ruin this country. It’s ruined every country where it’s been implemented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

There is no difference between democratic socialism and socialism. “Democratic socialism” is some made up ******** to make it more palatable to the masses and get them to vote for it. It will ruin this country. It’s ruined every country where it’s been implemented.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Calling it "Democratic" Socialism is like being a little bit pregnant. If you really want to see a "Democratic" Socialist's head explode in a rage just point out that "Democratic" Socialism has been done before under another name...and it took a world war and millions of deaths and untold destruction to end it. That name is "National Socialism".

That will trigger a violent response but it is a truthful and historical accurate statement and comparison. Two of the differences between Communism and Fascism is that Communism divides by economic class...Fascism divides by race. Both of those have been adopted by todays progressives and the Democrat Party in general.