Body Armor and Preparedness

[Ponder_MD]

I hope I don't accidentally start some flame war or religious war over this.

How many of you are considering body armor? What kind? Why?

I'm considering it because I think advanced medical care/trauma care is going to be in short supply in the future. A GSW that might not be fatal when care is abundant may be lethal when it's scarce.
I'm considering steel armor not because it's cheap, but because in a time of no resupply, steel will just keep taking hits. I don't mean taking multiple hits in a single engagement, I mean single hits months or weeks apart. Ceramic may take multiple hits but not as many as steel. If you can't buy more, you're screwed.

I'm leaning heavily towards Predator because their fragmentation mitigation system seems the best. The rubber coating and kevlar wrap contained a ridiculous number of 9mm hits without fragmentation escaping the covering. Their AR650 steel is the thinnest but the III+ will stop everything but .30-06 AP so the weight is acceptable. 14lbs for 2 plates. I'm rucking 2-6 miles with a 50lb. pack everyday so this is manageable to me.

When I reviewed the NIJ test results between Predator and other brands, Predator reported the lowest backface deformation of the clay backface behind the test plate. This indicates the user will experience the least skin and organ trauma from the impact, especially with additional trauma pads behind the plate. Non-penetration doesn't help much if the impact still causes internal bleeding.

My runner-up choice was Tacticon Armament but their backface deformation reported was much higher, the coating seems to separate from the plate after fewer shots and they didn't respond to my email. They are lighter and less expensive, however. Their plates would definitely work, they just don't seem as long-lived.

Thoughts?

 

[spoon059]

In my defense... you asked.

Thoughts?

Shrine of the Mall Ninja – LonelyMachines

lonelymachines.org

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[Triggerfinger]

I can appreciate your wanting body armor for what may be coming. I tend to think that if I live in a world where my body armor is taking multiple hits months apart I'm not so sure that survival is something I really want. LOL

 

[Ponder_MD]

In my defense... you asked.

Shrine of the Mall Ninja – LonelyMachines

lonelymachines.org

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Coming from LE, I expect nothing less. It's cool.

 

[DaemonAssassin]

Coming from LE, I expect nothing less. It's cool.

We all gotta poke fun.

Truthfully though, once your steel plate has been hit, it is effectively comprised/weakened.

 

[Scottysan]

for day to day use, I've been looking at ballistic panels that carry in a backpack

Byrna Shield Bullet Resistant Backpack Body Armor

As easy to insert into a standard-sized student backpack as a school notebook, Byrna Shield Backpack Body Armor is a thin, lightweight (14 oz.), flexible Level IIIA-rated ballistic plate. It can withstand up to 6 hits from .44 magnum bullets with velocities up to 1,464 feet-per-second. For the...

byrna.com

 

[Biggfoot44]

The big question:

Are we discussing daily , or at least frequent, wear , to protect against usual hazards ?

Or for gearing up to take on a platoon of Russian Paratroopers reenacting Red Dawn ( or fill in paramilitary scenario of choice ) ?

 

[sleev-les]

I have a Crye JPC 2.0 carrier with Hesco 4400 multicurve armor. I had Steel prior and the weight/comfort between the 2 isn't comparable. If you are doing frequent use, multicurve plates like the Hesco will be easier to manage. I found mind at a pretty good price. Just can't remember where.

 

[Huckleberry]

Wearing a flak jacket, chicken plate or body armor is not a substitute for using good cover and concealment.

Multiple Hits? After the first one, you ain't going to want another.

No body armor is replacement for good, heavy cover.

Also, if they can shoot through it, it ain't cover.

 

[Archeryrob]

What he said ↑

A bullet stopped will probably take your down, stun you and then they could walk up on you and finish you. They said a 40 cal pistol equivalent to a huge gut punch or a light bat strike. A rifle even worse.

 

[smokey]

BattleSteel Level 3A+ 10x15 Enhanced Protection Flexible Armor Panels

Get enhanced protection with BattleSteel Level 3A+ 10x15 Flexible Armor Panels. Lightweight and durable, these slim backpack inserts are a must-have for any situation. Made in the USA.

botach.com

I've got botach's iiia+ panels in my backpack and the backpacks for my sons. As long as it's not a rifle, they're good to stop it. When out in public, it's also not weird to just see me with a backpack on when I'm taking my kids somewhere. The plan is if I scoop up my kids and run, this can cover my back. My kids' teachers are aware of them at school, so if anything ever happens there, the packs are a resource for them.

 

[Biggfoot44]

What he said ↑

A bullet stopped will probably take your down, stun you and then they could walk up on you and finish you. They said a 40 cal pistol equivalent to a huge gut punch or a light bat strike. A rifle even worse.

Richard C. Davis does not agree .

Lots of video of him shooting himself in the vest , then imeadately clearing 5 bowling pins .

 

[smokey]

For heavier armor needs, RMA is the best option. Specifically, their 1155 multicurve level iv. They are nij certified, not just tested. I got one of their iii+ curved steel plates for the back armor because it's thinner and you don't really have the same frag/ricochet concerns behind you as you do in front if you. Plus, the aforementioned iiia+ panel may be over it with my backpack.

For a carrier, I just got a cheap ass condor carrier. It's good enough to get the job done and is reasonably comfortable. I was mostly looking for something I could quickly throw on for home defense, if I had enough time. So toss it on and if possible, just click the two buckles on either side.

I'd get a better carrier, but chances of me actually using these plates for a long period of time are prettttttttttty unlikely.

The next purchase will either be a ballistic helmet or soft and concealable iiia armor for under a hoodie/coat. If something like the blm 2020 riots happen, it would be nice to be protected from pistols without letting the crowd know I'm wearing anything but a black hoodie.

 

[4g64loser]

View attachment 458634 View attachment 458635 View attachment 458636
For heavier armor needs, RMA is the best option. Specifically, their 1155 multicurve level iv. They are nij certified, not just tested. I got one of their iii+ curved steel plates for the back armor because it's thinner and you don't really have the same frag/ricochet concerns behind you as you do in front if you. Plus, the aforementioned iiia+ panel may be over it with my backpack.

For a carrier, I just got a cheap ass condor carrier. It's good enough to get the job done and is reasonably comfortable. I was mostly looking for something I could quickly throw on for home defense, if I had enough time. So toss it on and if possible, just click the two buckles on either side.

I'd get a better carrier, but chances of me actually using these plates for a long period of time are prettttttttttty unlikely.

The next purchase will either be a ballistic helmet or soft and concealable iiia armor for under a hoodie/coat. If something like the blm 2020 riots happen, it would be nice to be protected from pistols without letting the crowd know I'm wearing anything but a black hoodie.

One thing to keep in mind when you are fitting for soft armor is how you carry. Most carry OWB and often on a duty type belt when wearing. The majority of vest fitting advice is tailored (pun intended) toward this application but usually doesn't say it is as that assumption is simply made.

Clearing an IWB firearm while wearing can be a challenge. I have two soft vests. One is "properly fitted" and gives a lot of coverage. I cannot effectively employ IWB carry due to draw interference and the inability to sit down, especially in a vehicle, while wearing this one. The second is "too small" and essentially stops at my floating ribs. It is very well fitted and I can still carry AIWB or IWB 4oclock without noticeable interference to my draw. This vest is nearly invisible when wearing a jacket or a size up sweatshirt.

 

[smokey]

One thing to keep in mind when you are fitting for soft armor is how you carry. Most carry OWB and often on a duty type belt when wearing. The majority of vest fitting advice is tailored (pun intended) toward this application but usually doesn't say it is as that assumption is simply made.

Clearing an IWB firearm while wearing can be a challenge. I have two soft vests. One is "properly fitted" and gives a lot of coverage. I cannot effectively employ IWB carry due to draw interference and the inability to sit down, especially in a vehicle, while wearing this one. The second is "too small" and essentially stops at my floating ribs. It is very well fitted and I can still carry AIWB or IWB 4oclock without noticeable interference to my draw. This vest is nearly invisible when wearing a jacket or a size up sweatshirt.

Good advice. Thanks.

 

[thedutchtouch]

Seems like another expensive thing that'll take up space in a closet or trunk to me. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people that buy this type of thing don't wear it every day, and most don't even have it readily accessible. If you don't, odds are you won't have it on/with you in the extremely unlikely event that you "need" it, kinda like leaving an edc item in your gun safe, so I choose to spend my money on items that are of greater utility. This choice is both from the frequency of use/need perspective, and also the weight perspective. In a shtf scenario there's a high likelihood that you'd need to be on the move, so i'd rather carry that weight in the form of food/water/ammo/shelter rather than carrying armor, as there's a finite amount you can carry and still move quickly/cover a lot of ground day after day. Just my opinion.

 

[smokey]

Seems like another expensive thing that'll take up space in a closet or trunk to me. I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of people that buy this type of thing don't wear it every day, and most don't even have it readily accessible. If you don't, odds are you won't have it on/with you in the extremely unlikely event that you "need" it, kinda like leaving an edc item in your gun safe, so I choose to spend my money on items that are of greater utility. This choice is both from the frequency of use/need perspective, and also the weight perspective. In a shtf scenario there's a high likelihood that you'd need to be on the move, so i'd rather carry that weight in the form of food/water/ammo/shelter rather than carrying armor, as there's a finite amount you can carry and still move quickly/cover a lot of ground day after day. Just my opinion.

That is a big +1 for backpack armor. It takes up almost no space and is with me everywhere I go. If I heard pops down the hallway right now, I'd have a quick improvised chest plate wearing it backwards. In terms of practicality, it beats a plate carrier. For $80, it's not a terrible use of loot. The iii+ premier body armor backpack plate would add a good deal more utility, being able to stop 5.56, but is up above my discretionary budget.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Fun question. Not unreasonably asked. Gonna be unreasonably answered.

Ride around in any hard armor for several hours.

Walk around in any hard armor for several hours.

Silly of me to bring it up but wear that kit and do anything vigorous and or adrenaline producing. Hell, come walk up n down our hills for a minute or sixty.

My point being armor is at once rational and not. Not unlike a ballistic bump helmet.

How fit are you. What kind of “exposure” do you realistically anticipate?

Avoidance, cover and concealment are much more likely to save your hide IMO

Doesn’t mean homey don’t got some. Steel? Yep. Ceramic? Yep. Soft? Yep. Bump helmet? Yep.

I don’t see much real use for me other than nvg on helmet and that sparingly.

I try to get in a couple miles a day on mostly flat. Get out of the bottom here and steep is normal. Humping weapon, ammo and water will be a chore. More weight, less better imo.

Was I urban or suburban, I might feel differently. Was I forty or so, I might also make different decisions.

YMMV

 

[BurkeM]

Body armor makes sense for on-duty law enforcement, corrections, and anyone in a combat zone.

 

[Slackdaddy]

IMHO,,
Money would be better spent having a cookout and getting to know your neighbors,,, Buy prime steaks and good bear. A good close group of neighbors will be more of a life saver than a vest.