BWI This Evening

[zoostation]

God this is weird but the night before this thread was started I had a dream I was at BWI watching the planes take off and leave and thinking they were much too low and the patterns they were flying weren't normal. Even though in real life I have not the slightest idea what the normal patterns are. I must be psychic (or something spelled like it)

 

[j_h_smith]

God this is weird but the night before this thread was started I had a dream I was at BWI watching the planes take off and leave and thinking they were much too low and the patterns they were flying weren't normal. Even though in real life I have not the slightest idea what the normal patterns are. I must be psychic (or something spelled like it)

Maybe somebody put in a leap day instead of a leap second in your head at midnight on the 1st?

I'm just saying...

 

[Mr H]

God this is weird but the night before this thread was started I had a dream I was at BWI watching the planes take off and leave and thinking they were much too low and the patterns they were flying weren't normal. Even though in real life I have not the slightest idea what the normal patterns are. I must be psychic (or something spelled like it)

Spooky, indeed...

Again, the only reason I asked about this was that is was a significant departure from normal patterns, and went on for quite a while.

While I don't follow aviation per se, I do know when something is out of the norm, especially having lived on this glide path most of my life.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Not quite. There are a lot of people who have been in their homes for years who knew how the planes flew in and out. The FAA's NextGen proposed flight patterns are what's pissing everybody off.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...1902f6b6571_story.html?utm_term=.21be39f65b54

I get it. I live under one of these corridors near BWI and planes go from a little subtle drone to sounding like a fighter at full afterburner. Sometimes so low you can read the numbers and even see the passengers. Especially on a day like today with cloud cover they seem off. So at least I pass the hypocrisy test!

But we are trying to cram more planes, into the same amount of runways, at the same cost...............something gives. If we had options for airport expansion (or new airports), or rapid rail to get to them, it would lessen the impacts on some of these communities.

 

[Jim12]

Before all this stuff started happening, I flew into BWI from Palm Beach last Tuesday afternoon, and had a checked box with me. After we landed and went to baggage claim, the baggage carousel for my Southwest flight was initially designated as #3, but was changed to #5 before any luggage came out.

After everyone moved from #3 to #5 and the plane was unloaded and the carousel was empty, my box wasn't there. Another passenger was still waiting, too. We discussed what to do. He spoke English with a strong accent, probably Russian. He said his "golf clubs" weren't on the carousel. He didn't look like a golfer. We went to the lost luggage counter, and were directed to an area cordoned off by movie theater-like velvet ropes. Behind the ropes were my checked box and his "golf clubs." He took his "golf clubs" and quickly disappeared.

All the odd stuff reported at BWI on this thread has happened since then.

 

[Blaster229]

I

Before all this stuff started happening, I flew into BWI from Palm Beach last Tuesday afternoon, and had a checked box with me. After we landed and went to baggage claim, the baggage carousel for my Southwest flight was initially designated as #3, but was changed to #5 before any luggage came out.

After everyone moved from #3 to #5 and the plane was unloaded and the carousel was empty, my box wasn't there. Another passenger was still waiting, too. We discussed what to do. He spoke English with a strong accent, probably Russian. He said his "golf clubs" weren't on the carousel. He didn't look like a golfer. We went to the lost luggage counter, and were directed to an area cordoned off by movie theater-like velvet ropes. Behind the ropes were my checked box and his "golf clubs." He took his "golf clubs" and quickly disappeared.

All the odd stuff reported at BWI on this thread has happened since then.

So. You were there and saw what he was waiting for. Do you know what golf clubs look like? Or just trying to make a nice story? You were waiting for a firearm and his was...What? Russian spy getting his tools of the trade in country?
You just had a brush with the cold war. :thumbup:
Why did you quote "golf clubs"?
Does John Daly look like a golfer?

 

[John from MD]

Back in the day, we had approaches set up for the three Washington area airports to reduce conflicts and ease the flow of traffic. Some years after that, there was a lawsuit against BWI from noise that resulted in 1000 housed get noise proofing and the noise walls you see on the highways. It also resulted in the noise abaitment turns that you experience on takeoff from certain runways and the approaches from the South being routed up the Severn River.

This was back in the eighties so I don't remember all the details.

In recent years, FAA ATC has been upgrading its systems and the process is called NEXTGEN. This entails changes to towers, centers, airports, aircraft etc. and allows for special types of operations that allow for more flow into airports. One of these is called RVSM which stands for Reduces Vertical Separation Minimum. This allows aircraft to be routed with only 1000 feet between them. There are many other "special authorizations" but I won't boor you with them.

NEXTGEN is allowing ATC to use different routings because they have better surveillance of the aircraft they are controlling. This is resulting in aircraft flying over places they never flew over before. It is also resulting in lawsuits.

For those of you who are bothered by the noise, you will hear less of it as Southwest is phasing out it's B737-300 aircraft this year. Most of the airlines operating MD 80 and 90 series aircraft are also phasing them out as they are not as efficient as the newer Boeings, Airbuses and Embriers. Pretty soon most of the airliners will be Stage Four Noise Compliant which will make them sound like a whisper.

I miss the old days and the old "motors". Four Wright R3350-69Turbo Compounds humming along was music to my ears.

 

[pilot25]

Before all this stuff started happening, I flew into BWI from Palm Beach last Tuesday afternoon, and had a checked box with me. After we landed and went to baggage claim, the baggage carousel for my Southwest flight was initially designated as #3, but was changed to #5 before any luggage came out.

After everyone moved from #3 to #5 and the plane was unloaded and the carousel was empty, my box wasn't there. Another passenger was still waiting, too. We discussed what to do. He spoke English with a strong accent, probably Russian. He said his "golf clubs" weren't on the carousel. He didn't look like a golfer. We went to the lost luggage counter, and were directed to an area cordoned off by movie theater-like velvet ropes. Behind the ropes were my checked box and his "golf clubs." He took his "golf clubs" and quickly disappeared.

All the odd stuff reported at BWI on this thread has happened since then.

Large items like clubs, car seats, etc go to a different belt as they are too big to fit in the normal carousels. If off to the right of all the carousels.

 

[pilot25]

Back in the day, we had approaches set up for the three Washington area airports to reduce conflicts and ease the flow of traffic. Some years after that, there was a lawsuit against BWI from noise that resulted in 1000 housed get noise proofing and the noise walls you see on the highways. It also resulted in the noise abaitment turns that you experience on takeoff from certain runways and the approaches from the South being routed up the Severn River.

This was back in the eighties so I don't remember all the details.

In recent years, FAA ATC has been upgrading its systems and the process is called NEXTGEN. This entails changes to towers, centers, airports, aircraft etc. and allows for special types of operations that allow for more flow into airports. One of these is called RVSM which stands for Reduces Vertical Separation Minimum. This allows aircraft to be routed with only 1000 feet between them. There are many other "special authorizations" but I won't boor you with them.

NEXTGEN is allowing ATC to use different routings because they have better surveillance of the aircraft they are controlling. This is resulting in aircraft flying over places they never flew over before. It is also resulting in lawsuits.

For those of you who are bothered by the noise, you will hear less of it as Southwest is phasing out it's B737-300 aircraft this year. Most of the airlines operating MD 80 and 90 series aircraft are also phasing them out as they are not as efficient as the newer Boeings, Airbuses and Embriers. Pretty soon most of the airliners will be Stage Four Noise Compliant which will make them sound like a whisper.

I miss the old days and the old "motors". Four Wright R3350-69Turbo Compounds humming along was music to my ears.

The NextGen "idea" is just that. Southwest upgraded all their aircraft except the -300/-500 series to "NextGen." Trained all the pilots to fly "NextGen" approaches to the tune of $150+ million dollars and Obama put the FAA's part of the deal on hold. My opinion is he spent the money, about a billion, on shovel ready jobs because moving airplanes in and out of airports efficiently isn't going to translate at the voting booth so why spend the money on it. Its why we are still using 60 year old radar systems. If the traveling public knew how crappy the stuff we have in our airplanes and the crap the controllers have they wouldn't travel.

RVSM is only for separation above 29,000 feet. The NextGen approaches are GPS based and allow airports to tailor approaches to their liking however most airports don't have them or use them. Its costly to design and implement just one approach. I believe only Alaska and SWA are capable of utilizing the full potential of NextGen so if every plane isn't on the same page, so to speak, use of NextGen is useless. The only airport where the NextGen approaches are consistently used is Chicago Midway because Southwest is pretty much the only carrier at the airport. Therefore, since 99% of the aircraft are capable they can move planes in away from ORD. However, ATC still isn't capable of the full use of NextGen. The separation requirements at MDW are the same as everywhere else.

 

[pilot25]

For those of you who are bothered by the noise, you will hear less of it as Southwest is phasing out it's B737-300 aircraft this year.

The last one flies October 2017. Supposedly.

 

[John from MD]

If the traveling public knew how crappy the stuff we have in our airplanes and the crap the controllers have they wouldn't travel.[/QUOTE]

I used to fly with radar that was black and white and basically gave you blobs for ground hits and we used contouring to pick out the thunderheads. All those colors make it look like a TV. As for the indicators, if you know where the needle is supposed to be, you don't have to read the number to three decimals.

I never did like the title Air Traffic Controller as I never did see them controlling anything on the airplane. I think they should have called them Air Traffic Advisors since the flight crew are the only people controlling anything.

 

[Mike]

With ADS-B and NEXGEN it seems possible that many ATC jobs will be eliminated.

 

[John from MD]

With ADS-B and NEXGEN it seems possible that many ATC jobs will be eliminated.

Are you kidding? They have over 15,000 people in their union so I don't think they will lose any jobs. Their PR department makes the public think that without them, air travel would come to a abrupt end.

I remember a time( late 0100 flt) when I tried to contact ground to taxi and never got a reply, tried the tower again no response. Company called the cops to go check on the ATC folks. The way I heard it, the male and female controllers were otherwise occupied.

 

[Mike]

Well, PATCO thought they had the GOV by the short hairs, but Regan set them straight.

 

[John from MD]

Well, PATCO thought they had the GOV by the short hairs, but Regan set them straight.

I remember that well. But that was REGAN.

I don't think the current crop of politicians have the cahones to pull off another stunt like that one.

 

[j_h_smith]

If the traveling public knew how crappy the stuff we have in our airplanes and the crap the controllers have they wouldn't travel.

I used to fly with radar that was black and white and basically gave you blobs for ground hits and we used contouring to pick out the thunderheads. All those colors make it look like a TV. As for the indicators, if you know where the needle is supposed to be, you don't have to read the number to three decimals.

I never did like the title Air Traffic Controller as I never did see them controlling anything on the airplane. I think they should have called them Air Traffic Advisors since the flight crew are the only people controlling anything. [/QUOTE]


"I'm not an air traffic controller, I'm an air traffic monitor. I tell you when I see something."

That would make for a great commercial...

ADT should use that idea!

 

[John from MD]

I love it!

 

[bkuether]

The last one flies October 2017. Supposedly.

I don't recall the 737 300 being all that noisy. Now I ride on the inside, but I can tell you the 200's were loud as crap with the smaller engines. That you could hear on the inside.....

 

[Alan3413]

Before all this stuff started happening, I flew into BWI from Palm Beach last Tuesday afternoon, and had a checked box with me. After we landed and went to baggage claim, the baggage carousel for my Southwest flight was initially designated as #3, but was changed to #5 before any luggage came out.

After everyone moved from #3 to #5 and the plane was unloaded and the carousel was empty, my box wasn't there. Another passenger was still waiting, too. We discussed what to do. He spoke English with a strong accent, probably Russian. He said his "golf clubs" weren't on the carousel. He didn't look like a golfer. We went to the lost luggage counter, and were directed to an area cordoned off by movie theater-like velvet ropes. Behind the ropes were my checked box and his "golf clubs." He took his "golf clubs" and quickly disappeared.

All the odd stuff reported at BWI on this thread has happened since then.

Is this the guy?

 

[Jim12]

Is this the guy?

He looked a little like this guy, only younger and more hair: