C&R Blacklist.

[somd_mustangs]

I am going to check if GB has a way to permanently blocking these sellers from my future searches.

Nope.

It would be nice if the seller was listed in the general search results in addition to GB #, Title, etc, at least you could avoid opening the link.
But alas, that is not the case.

 

[Mike OTDP]

You could suggest it to GB.

 

[nmyers]

I'm with the folks who say, "If they don't want my money, I'll buy somewhere else." And, my observation is that many of the collectible guns will bring 20-30% more if the seller had been willing to ship to a C&R.

GB listings have a check box for listers: FFL REQUIRED YES or NO. I suggested that they change to FFL REQUIRED YES, NO, or C&R/FFL. Apparently they are still considering this change, or maybe they don't think that it's worth while. It might help if others wrote.

To be fair, the gun business is a lot more about "business" than "guns". Some folks go into it without realizing that you really need at least a high school education in order to read & comprehend the laws & regulations. So, we need to understand that some dealers are just going to shutdown due to data overload.

Some rural dealers sell from their homes, & common carriers don't pick up where they live. So, I can understand why they won't sell a handgun to a C&R. Also, some folks don't know expensive Next Day Air is, & I have seen cases where a C&R holder accused the seller of overcharging because a handgun cost $80 shipping.

When I ask an FFL if he will ship to a C&R, I always say, "I will include a photocopy of my C&R & drivers license"; several have changed their minds & agreed to ship to me.

Neal

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

I'm with the folks who say, "If they don't want my money, I'll buy somewhere else." And, my observation is that many of the collectible guns will bring 20-30% more if the seller had been willing to ship to a C&R.

GB listings have a check box for listers: FFL REQUIRED YES or NO. I suggested that they change to FFL REQUIRED YES, NO, or C&R/FFL. Apparently they are still considering this change, or maybe they don't think that it's worth while. It might help if others wrote.

To be fair, the gun business is a lot more about "business" than "guns". Some folks go into it without realizing that you really need at least a high school education in order to read & comprehend the laws & regulations. So, we need to understand that some dealers are just going to shutdown due to data overload.

Some rural dealers sell from their homes, & common carriers don't pick up where they live. So, I can understand why they won't sell a handgun to a C&R. Also, some folks don't know expensive Next Day Air is, & I have seen cases where a C&R holder accused the seller of overcharging because a handgun cost $80 shipping.

When I ask an FFL if he will ship to a C&R, I always say, "I will include a photocopy of my C&R & drivers license"; several have changed their minds & agreed to ship to me.

Neal

this was what i ran into yesterday at Purcell Guns in Purcellville , Dale seems like a nice enough guys but he had very little knowledge and when asked if he would do a C&R on a pistol, i got the reply that he didnt have a list of the C&R guns and so he makes everyone do paperwork no matter what.

He had some good stuff but everything I asked about was " That one isnt for sale" . So that shop is prob not going to be one that i go to again

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

Add another to the list


Asked about C&R on a Fn49, they were polite but still refuse to transfer to a C&R

Gunbroker seller
Red dot Arms
Lake Villa, IL 60046

 

[MilsurpDan]

Might have to add another to the list shortly.

I won an Auction last night for a Dutch M1895 Mannlicher Carbine made by Steyr in 1900. The auction description says C&R's are fine on qualifying firearms. I email my C&R and call to pay for it with my credit card since they said they don't add extra fees. The employee says I'll need to supply them with "a list of exact serial numbers corresponding to the manufacture date of the firearm" in order for it to be considered C&R to them. Of course, I can't find that for Dutch Mannlichers, or most other C&R guns. I tell them what the law states, along with the ATF regulations on it and they tell me "it's the bosses decision".

I tell them I'm not completing the sale since they didn't say that in the description and they tried to get me to pay a 10% restocking fee or else they'll leave me bad feedback! I told them if they try to do that I'll file a complaint with Gunbroker, so now they want me to call back tomorrow when their "guy that knows more about C&R guns" is working.

I'll call back tomorrow and see what happens, but at this point I don't even want the gun anymore and would rather just cancel the sale.

 

[Engine4]

Sounds like they're trying to pull a fast one & didn't expect you to know the law.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

The dude needs a math lesson. 2017 - 50 = 1967.

Then include a history lesson. 1900 came before 1967.

Seems like more and more sellers are saying "If Applicable". As a way of getting folks to bid. Then they make the buyers jump through hoops to complete the sale.

 

[MilsurpDan]

The dude needs a math lesson. 2017 - 50 = 1967.

Then include a history lesson. 1900 came before 1967.

Seems like more and more sellers are saying "If Applicable". As a way of getting folks to bid. Then they make the buyers jump through hoops to complete the sale.

The second guy I talked to said that they know all about what the ATF says is C&R, but they'll only sell guns as C&R if they have a list of serial numbers, which is completely stupid. He also said that since he put it in the "Bolt Action Rifle" category, it wasn't listed as a C&R gun so I shouldn't have expected it to be a C&R rifle in the first place

 

[whistlersmother]

The second guy I talked to said that they know all about what the ATF says is C&R, but they'll only sell guns as C&R if they have a list of serial numbers, which is completely stupid. He also said that since he put it in the "Bolt Action Rifle" category that it wasn't listed as a C&R gun so I shouldn't have expected it to be a C&R rifle in the first place

Huh? Sound like "bubba logic" to me.

 

[somd_mustangs]

... as opposed to sellers that list things in the Curio & Relic category, and then in fine print say they won't accept a C&R
(there's at least 2 that have done that)

 

[BeoBill]

Complain --> Gunbroker. That's clearly "bait and switch."

 

[iH8DemLibz]

The second guy I talked to said that they know all about what the ATF says is C&R, but they'll only sell guns as C&R if they have a list of serial numbers, which is completely stupid. He also said that since he put it in the "Bolt Action Rifle" category, it wasn't listed as a C&R gun so I shouldn't have expected it to be a C&R rifle in the first place

This is why I haven't purchased off of GB in five or so years.

Sellers are now Idiots.

Write him back and tell him you'll buy the rifle if he can produce the serial numbers on your twenty dollar bills.

 

[MilsurpDan]

Here's the auction in question.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/640073184

Towards the bottom of the description, you can see it clearly says..."We gladly accept all Curio and Relic licenses as long as the gun in question is ATF classified as a Curio & Relic."

 

[cantstop]

I've had similar discussions with sellers on Gunbroker. I refer them to the ATF page that summarizes the Federal Firearms Law 27 CFR §478.11 that defines Curio or Relic (C&R) firearms.

I tell them they can read it here:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

I quote the pertinent portion - usually the 50 year rule.

To be recognized as C&R items, 478.11 specifies that firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

1. Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas of such firearms;
...

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list.

Then I explain the reason I believe the gun for sale meets the 50 year rule. For some guns it is as simple as stating production dates (Example: started in 1911 and ended in 1955).

 

[Oldcarjunkie]

Here's the auction in question.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/640073184

Towards the bottom of the description, you can see it clearly says..."We gladly accept all Curio and Relic licenses as long as the gun in question is ATF classified as a Curio & Relic."

Not sure whats all in this but a link said this would help to identify years. Hope its worth the read

http://www.mannlicher.org/Portals/140/Date of Mfg.pdf


http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?2398-STEYR-Weapons-Production-1870-1914

 

[WESTMD]

Another one for the list. He refuses C&R and says he has no way to check with ATF if a C&R is valid.

Back Country Sports, Saint Albans, VT 05478

 

[Matlack]

... as opposed to sellers that list things in the Curio & Relic category, and then in fine print say they won't accept a C&R
(there's at least 2 that have done that)

You mean on this forum????? Couldnt be.

 

[somd_mustangs]

... as opposed to sellers that list things in the Curio & Relic category, and then in fine print say they won't accept a C&R
(there's at least 2 that have done that)

You mean on this forum????? Couldnt be.

On Gunbroker, not members here

 

[smoothebore]

You have a crazy seller there. File a complaint with Gunbroker.