CCW and the law.

[JimH4662]

Was wondering if I could get clarification on an issue or two from the knowledgeable folks here on MD shooters.

1. If you obtained a Utah CCW, and Maryland does not recognize it, how do you get your hand gun to the border states who do recognize then CCW? It is my understanding that carrying a hand gun you are only authorized to carry it secured in a compartment away from another compartment with ammo, to/from range, repair, or purchase?

2. So the dilemma is you are in Pennsylvania, coming back to Maryland, stop at the border, secure your gun, are you in violation of the law.

 

[George]

Stop before you cross the MD line and secure your firearm, If you are in MD going to PA you drive over the boarder and holster your firearm.

 

[Merlin]

Was wondering if I could get clarification on an issue or two from the knowledgeable folks here on MD shooters.

1. If you obtained a Utah CCW, and Maryland does not recognize it, how do you get your hand gun to the border states who do recognize then CCW? It is my understanding that carrying a hand gun you are only authorized to carry it secured in a compartment away from another compartment with ammo, to/from range, repair, or purchase?

2. So the dilemma is you are in Pennsylvania, coming back to Maryland, stop at the border, secure your gun, are you in violation of the law.

It's as simple as, when in Maryland, Maryland law has to be followed. If you do not have a Maryland ccw, that means when you're in your car in Maryland, your guns must be unloaded, and in a secure case or holster.

As a side note: Maryland dose not say anything about keeping the gun in a different compartment from the driver, and Maryland does not say anything about keeping the ammunition separate or in a different compartment from the gun.

So when driving around PA carrying your guns, before you drive back into Maryland, you need to stop and do whatever you need to do to comply with Maryland law.

 

[Merlin]

Was wondering if I could get clarification on an issue or two from the knowledgeable folks here on MD shooters.

1. If you obtained a Utah CCW, and Maryland does not recognize it, how do you get your hand gun to the border states who do recognize then CCW? It is my understanding that carrying a hand gun you are only authorized to carry it secured in a compartment away from another compartment with ammo, to/from range, repair, or purchase?

2. So the dilemma is you are in Pennsylvania, coming back to Maryland, stop at the border, secure your gun, are you in violation of the law.

Also, if your transporting your gun like you should, complying to Maryland law, nothing will be said if your not technically going to a Range, Gun smith, Or shooting event. For example; you may want to take your gun to your friends house so they can look at it, whether your just showing it to your friend for show and tell or maybe they is considering buying it.

What your bigger concern should be is whatever activity that you may have been engaged in that lead to the LEO's pulling you over and leading to the search of your vehicle where they find your gun. (that better be unloaded in a secure case or holster.)

Any LEO will tell you what they do, or how they will handle anything they find will be influenced by the reason they are their in the first place. It's not as if Maryland LEO's conduct random road blocks where they are looking for people not transporting their guns the correct way.

For example if your driving up I83 and you get pulled over for speeding. And lets say the LEO sees you gun on the passengers seat in it's secure case unloaded, and he asks you where your going. Then you tell him that your driving to PA for the day and wanted to take your gun with you because you have a CCW that PA honers, I'm sure nothing will be said.

However, if the reason your in the LEO's sights is because you have been under the influence and your involved in a fight in the parking lot of your local bar at 1am (clearly not on your way home, to a range, or to a gun smith, or a shooting event) and then the LEO finds the same gun in it's secure case or holster, the out come may be WAY different.

 

[Dan_Br]

does "secured case" include a zippered handgun case or does it need to be some kind of locked box?
Thanks
Dan

 

[swinokur]

If your firearm is locked in your trunk, there is no reason to allow a search. politely decline.

As Merlin mentioned, there are only a few allowed activities under MD 4-203. Make sure you're engaged in one of them. If you are not, you are technically in violation of 4-203. Lock it in the trunk. Problem solved.

Before anyone pipes up, FOPA has nothing to do with the scenario the OP described. MD 4-203 applies here.

 

[swinokur]

does "secured case" include a zippered handgun case or does it need to be some kind of locked box?
Thanks
Dan

The law says enclosed case, not secure. I think you're legal.

MD 4-203:

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;
(5)the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

IANAL

 

[Tomcat]

Just to be the devil's advocate, according to the law I can wear the handgun in a holster, as long as it's unloaded?

 

[PJDiesel]

"Enclosed" case, how about a lower console, below the center seat in a P/U truck?

Sounds enclosed to me.

 

[swinokur]

Unloaded AND in an enclosed holster. You also need to be involved in one of the allowed activities mentioned above. I go to the NRA range in Fairfax using a Safariland retention holster. I consider it enclosed. That's just my interpretation. There is no real definition I can find.

 

[Merlin]

does "secured case" include a zippered handgun case or does it need to be some kind of locked box?
Thanks
Dan

Well, You see that's the rub. No one knows.

Even the MSP do not know. If you call the hand gun section, or talk to any trooper of the street and tell them that you want to buy the "secure case" the law mentions so you will be in compliance with the law, and your asking them what case fits the bill and qualify as their Secure case? They will tell you that they do not know what to tell you to buy. And they will go on to say, just put your gun in your trunk to play it safe because you never know what LEO may stop you and what they think qualifies as a secure case or holster.

The MD law does not say you have to put your gun in your trunk, but the LEO's will suggest that to you because no one knows what legally meets Maryland's "Secure or Case" definition. It's just words the anti politicians added to the law to make things confusing and difficult.

I mean they have no problem with their gun lists that detail exactly what guns you can and can't own. Why can't that come out with a list of approved "secured" cases so you know your doing the right thing.

 

[Merlin]

Unloaded AND in an enclosed holster. You also need to be involved in one of the allowed activities mentioned above. I go to the NRA range in Fairfax using a Safariland retention holster. I consider it enclosed. That's just my interpretation. There is no real definition I can find.

That's all you can do because the MSP will not advise you other then just tell you to place it in the trunk.

 

[Merlin]

Just to be the devil's advocate, according to the law I can wear the handgun in a holster, as long as it's unloaded?

Is it a secure holster?

 

[Merlin]

The law says enclosed case, not secure. I think you're legal.

MD 4-203:



IANAL

They must have changed it. Did it not at one time say secure?

 

[Mooseman]

I personally would not push the holster issue. A zippered pistol rug and you should be good to go.

 

[Merlin]

If your firearm is locked in your trunk, there is no reason to allow a search. politely decline.

As Merlin mentioned, there are only a few allowed activities under MD 4-203. Make sure you're engaged in one of them. If you are not, you are technically in violation of 4-203. Lock it in the trunk. Problem solved.

Before anyone pipes up, FOPA has nothing to do with the scenario the OP described. MD 4-203 applies here.

swinokur, when travailing from one state to another, and if nether state has a law that tells you your gun must be locked up in a separate compartment from the driver (like a trunk), is the FOPA the fed law that kicks in and tells us that we do have to have the gun in the separate compartment?

 

[swinokur]

They must have changed it. Did it not at one time say secure?

Not to my knowledge. always said ENCLOSED AFAIK.

 

[Merlin]

I personally would not push the holster issue. A zippered pistol rug and you should be good to go.

I assume enclosed means that when the gun is in this type of case we cant see it because it is complete inside this kind of case?

 

[Sharpeneddark]

The trunk is a nice option...unless you own a pickup truck only. Even if I were to install a cargo net to keep the stuff from sliding around, I'd rather not leave my firearms in the back.

 

[swinokur]

swinokur, when travailing from one state to another, and if nether state has a law that tells you your gun must be locked up in a separate compartment from the driver (like a trunk), is the FOPA the fed law that kicks in and tells us that we do have to have the gun in the separate compartment?

No, if the state you are traveling through is more resticitive, then FOPA protects you. If the state has no prohibition on it (like VA) then you don't need to lock it in the trunk. And it's travel through a state, not going from one to another (like MD to PA). Each state's laws applying that situation (IMO)

IANAL.