Finally. A Negative Post About Freestate Gun Range

[Mason-Dixon Baseball]

I agree on the clearing of the gun - but where is the level of outrageous outrage at Freestate for carrying on a policy that Continental Arms has had for years? Where is the vilification and subsequent boycott of Freestate? Why are the masses not out front with pitchforks and torches? Why is no one showing up there with a letter from the assistant to the AG saying loaded mags are ok?

They have--- and Randy's response was "That's fine in your car, but this is my range...."

 

[Abacab]

They have--- and Randy's response was "That's fine in your car, but this is my range...."

Fine with me, his business and he can do whatever he wants. Continental's mistake was claiming that it was the law rather than saying store policy. Now they state it's store policy. Regardless, I'm obviously fishing for consistency on the part of the outraged over loaded mags.

 

[Second Amendment]

I agree on the clearing of the gun - but where is the outrageous outrage at Freestate for continuing a policy that Continental Arms has had for years? Where is the vilification and subsequent boycott of Freestate? Why are the masses not out front with pitchforks and torches? Why is no one showing up there with a letter from the assistant to the AG saying loaded mags are ok?

It sounds to me that you feel Freestate needs some critisism because of all the heat Continental has taken on this forum?

 

[scrovak]

Wait-- stop everything--- !!! You have a friend that works at a strip club and you didn't tell me????? You bastard!!!!

Just did!


Also, taking an absolutely gorgeous friend of mine shooting in a couple of weeks... You'll like her.

 

[Abacab]

It sounds to me that you feel Freestate needs some critisism because of all the heat Continental has taken on this forum?

Not necessarily. I think the loaded magazine bit is dumb all the way around. Retail establishments are free to make whatever policy they want. What bothers me is that Freestate is the Sacred Cow of mdshooters while apparently engaging in many of the same practices Continental has regarding their range. Yet there is nary a peep here about all of these arduous and unfair rules Freestate has. In fact, many are (reasonably) defending Freestate's ammo inspection, for example. Yet I can recall instances where members felt slighted when Continental inspected their firearms for the very same reasons.

 

[Boondock Saint]

I agree on the clearing of the gun - but where is the outrageous outrage at Freestate for continuing a policy that Continental Arms has had for years? Where is the vilification and subsequent boycott of Freestate? Why are the masses not out front with pitchforks and torches? Why is no one showing up there with a letter from the assistant to the AG saying loaded mags are ok?

I have personally shown Randy the AG's unofficial opinion on loaded mags. That it remains their policy is perfectly fine by me and obviously many other shooters as well. Do I wish they'd change it? Kinda, but it's not a big deal either way. I think the difference for most folks, myself included, is that the folks at CA at the time (or at least, some of the employees with whom I personally dealt in the past) were touting their store policy as the law. Clearly, no employee past or present could show the relevant portion of Maryland law banning transportation of loaded magazines.

 

[PapiBarcelona]

This loaded mag shit really makes me laugh, I think there's a simple solution to those who are anally pressed to do it at a place that prohibits it when they see them in your bag.

Do Indoor ranges pat you down as well? Do you walk through a Magnetometer?

 

[Soda]

Fine with me, his business and he can do whatever he wants. Continental's mistake was claiming that it was the law rather than saying store policy. Now they state it's store policy. Regardless, I'm obviously fishing for consistency on the part of the outraged over loaded mags.

Maybe there is no outrage because most people seem to see the logic in FreeState's policy of checking ammunition. Having to remove ammunition from loaded magazines to check for steel core ammo would cause problems.

 

[Not_Disapproved]

Re:

Actually, I'm Ms. Clarissa's, of the Psychic Friends Network, long lost lovechild which should be apparent from my prescient post of Aug 11, 2011. As one one of you astutely observed, I'm an engineer which means I lack the basic social skills to work in any type of retail environment, let alone one as trying as a gun shop. Honestly, what brought this to a head was when a coworker came back from Freestate and said he was told that 9mm, 115gr, JHP is a "condo safe" round (won't penetrate multiple instances of drywall). Fortunately, YouTube therapy cured him of this fallacy, but as a new shooter he believed what he was told. When I asked him for who told him that, let's just say it wasn't Randy, Mark, Will, or Dr. Bob. The same guy wanted night sights and it sucks to have to tell him to ignore everybody but the full time employees. Not every volunteer is a problem, several are knowledgeable, but there are a few that simply have no clue.

Now, since we're taking the gloves off, I guess I'll air my remaining grievances about Freestate:

1. Randy's repeated sharing of carryout fare has adversely affected my attempts to regulate my girlish figure.
2. While they have provided a urinal in the ladies room, the lack of a bidet in the mens room clearly demonstrates that Freestate is not a hermaphrodite-friendly establishment.
3. During the Zombie Invasion of 10-31-11, I contracted a dose of the Zombie Clap for which traditional cures have proven entirely ineffective.
4. If you really suspect that I have unsafe weapons, conduct the inspection in a more discrete area like the lane itself. Otherwise, I reserve the right to include "the Derringer" in the set to be displayed publicly.

Sure, I could post a list of complaints about Continental, Horst McCann, or Freedom Armory, but I don't care if they improve or close tomorrow. In less than a year, Freestate has dominated the local market. I'd like to see that continue, so I see no reason why suggesting improvements is cause for consternation.

 

[Abacab]

I have personally shown Randy the AG's unofficial opinion on loaded mags. That it remains their policy is perfectly fine by me and obviously many other shooters as well. Do I wish they'd change it? Kinda, but it's not a big deal either way. I think the difference for most folks, myself included, is that the folks at CA at the time (or at least, some of the employees with whom I personally dealt in the past) were touting their store policy as the law. Clearly, no employee past or present could show the relevant portion of Maryland law banning transportation of loaded magazines.

I completely and whole heartedly agree with you regarding the claim that it was law. It's not. The only relevant reference to loaded mags was in the hunting regulations. While some were legitimately more irritated by the claim it was law without proof, many complained for the sake of it.

 

[GNLaFrance]

I'll just leave these right here. Those of you who need them, feel free to help yourselves.

 

[StantonCree]

2. While they have provided a urinal in the ladies room, the lack of a bidet in the mens room clearly demonstrates that Freestate is not a hermaphrodite-friendly establishment.
3. During the Zombie Invasion of 10-31-11, I contracted a dose of the Zombie Clap for which traditional cures have proven entirely ineffective.

For number three they make a cream consisting of wolf hair, credit card pieces, truck-stop suprise, and monkey feces. Works like a CHARM.

As for #2 you sir are completly wrong I have brought multiple "girls" on dates there and the staff has been nothing but professional and friendly. They have even offered my dates their personal bikes with the seats removed for transportation from lane to lane. HOW DARE YOU!!!

 

[Second Amendment]

Not necessarily. I think the loaded magazine bit is dumb all the way around. Retail establishments are free to make whatever policy they want. What bothers me is that Freestate is the Sacred Cow of mdshooters while apparently engaging in many of the same practices Continental has regarding their range. Yet there is nary a peep here about all of these arduous and unfair rules Freestate has. In fact, many are (reasonably) defending Freestate's ammo inspection, for example. Yet I can recall instances where members felt slighted when Continental inspected their firearms for the very same reasons.

I'm not trying to start anything, but the chief complaint about Continental was the treatment of their customers. Freestate is a "sacred cow" right now because they are a new modern facility, the staff is friendly, and for many it's in a great location. I visited Continental twice many years ago, so I can't speak to how they are now.

 

[scrovak]

Honestly, what brought this to a head was when a coworker came back from Freestate and said he was told that 9mm, 115gr, JHP is a "condo safe" round (won't penetrate multiple instances of drywall). Fortunately, YouTube therapy cured him of this fallacy, but as a new shooter he believed what he was told.

First, the video doesn't specify if it's JHP or FMJ round. It simply says 9mm.

As for your friend, Did he ask what the best HD round was for an apartment/condo, or something similar? That would have probably elicited a response of 'Well, because of the frangible nature of the round, 115gr JHP is the least likely to go through multiple walls, from one apartment/condo to another.'

And that would have been entirely correct, yet your coworker could have been a bit lacking in detail when he related the story...

 

[FIREHAWK]

Really? No loaded mags? There's a stunning level of silence here regarding that if true. It's the first I've heard of the dreaded loaded mag crisis rearing its ugly head in the context of Freestate. I concede to not reading every thread on the place so perhaps I missed it. Can anyone confirm that policy?

at first loaded mags were ok at freestate (its on a thread here somewhere) then they discovered the problems with steel ammo tearing the backstops up and changed policy. from what i was told it has nothing to do with maryland law or ccw and they are pretty lax on starting times to give you time to setup and load mags.

at first when i was there with loaded mags because i didn't know they had the new policy (which they say was always the policy) i was a lil pissed about having to unload them but after i learned it was due to steel ammo being brought in, i understood and changed my tune.

 

[FIREHAWK]

Actually, I'm Ms. Clarissa's, of the Psychic Friends Network, long lost lovechild which should be apparent from my prescient post of Aug 11, 2011. As one one of you astutely observed, I'm an engineer which means I lack the basic social skills to work in any type of retail environment, let alone one as trying as a gun shop. Honestly, what brought this to a head was when a coworker came back from Freestate and said he was told that 9mm, 115gr, JHP is a "condo safe" round (won't penetrate multiple instances of drywall). Fortunately, YouTube therapy cured him of this fallacy, but as a new shooter he believed what he was told. When I asked him for who told him that, let's just say it wasn't Randy, Mark, Will, or Dr. Bob. The same guy wanted night sights and it sucks to have to tell him to ignore everybody but the full time employees. Not every volunteer is a problem, several are knowledgeable, but there are a few that simply have no clue.

Now, since we're taking the gloves off, I guess I'll air my remaining grievances about Freestate:

1. Randy's repeated sharing of carryout fare has adversely affected my attempts to regulate my girlish figure.
2. While they have provided a urinal in the ladies room, the lack of a bidet in the mens room clearly demonstrates that Freestate is not a hermaphrodite-friendly establishment.
3. During the Zombie Invasion of 10-31-11, I contracted a dose of the Zombie Clap for which traditional cures have proven entirely ineffective.
4. If you really suspect that I have unsafe weapons, conduct the inspection in a more discrete area like the lane itself. Otherwise, I reserve the right to include "the Derringer" in the set to be displayed publicly.

Sure, I could post a list of complaints about Continental, Horst McCann, or Freedom Armory, but I don't care if they improve or close tomorrow. In less than a year, Freestate has dominated the local market. I'd like to see that continue, so I see no reason why suggesting improvements is cause for consternation.

hey you spelled douche wrong in your user title

 

[matt.ruszala]

Lighten Up!!

After reading all the glowing reviews about Freestate Gun Range, I'm afraid going to have to whiz on the Positivity Parade with the first complaint post. I am a member and a regular customer who shoots there at least 3 times a week. In all fairness, I have to say that just about every positive review on here is true, Freestate is the preeminent gun range in Central MD.

Let me start off by saying, God bless volunteers. If it wasn't for volunteers there would be no pet rescue organizations and many churches and charities couldn't function. However, I'm starting to think that volunteerism and handguns is not the wisest combination. As you may know, Freestate uses volunteers to augment their staff of full-time employees. Basically, Mark, Randy, Dr. Bob, and Will are the primary full time employees and I believe that everyone else is "working" for free. This is problematic due to the fact that many of the volunteers have no idea what they are talking about, but they rarely let that discourage them from talking. It's kind of embarrassing when you recommend Freestate to a friend or coworker and then have them tell you that the employee they talked to was clueless. This has happened twice now, so I tell people to always ask for Mark, Randy, Will, or Bob, if they're looking to buy something.

Another issue I have with these volunteers, is when they insist on inspecting your bag. I've never had a full time employee do this, but I understand the need to keep steel cored ammo off the range. However, recently, one of the volunteers insisted that I remove every gun from my bag and display it to him. How this prevents contraband ammo, I'll never know, since an electron spectrograph would be required to determine whether I'd used steel ammo in them. What it does accomplish is analogous to a bank teller who counts out a withdrawal to you verbally: Everybody in the store now knows I've got over $2000 of guns on me. Thanks, dumbass. The icing on the cake was when the volunteer pulled out a magnet to test the ammo I'd brought. Apparently, the Federal 9mm box didn't ring any bells, despite the pallet of the stuff no more than 10' away from us. In fact, it was from said pallet where I bought it, so unless Freestate is selling contraband, no magnet is required. I don't think its unreasonable to have an employee recognize the "house" brand of ammo.


I've, also, heard several members complain about the fact that the volunteers are permitted to open carry in the store and I agree with them. In the unlikely event of an armed robbery, I'm more afraid of the volunteers than of the criminals. Amongst the full time employees, you have a retired police officer, a decorated combat veteran, and an ex-Olympic shooter. If that doesn't suffice, there's nothing an armed volunteer can do to improve the situation and plenty that could make a bad situation worse.

Regardless, as I've already stated, Freestate is, in my opinion, the best indoor range in the area, and I've been to all of them. Don't let anything that I've said here dissuade you from going there, just be sure to talk to a full time employee if you've got something serious in mind or you think a volunteer is doing something dumb.

1) Nothing wrong with volunteers. Everybody has got to start somewhere.

2) Good for Freestate allowing volunteers to work there. It's a win win for them and the volunteer.

3) Maybe you should be more polite and help a volunteer. Maybe they can learn something from you.

4) I think a volunteer waited on me. I suggested he check my ammo and pointed out he should check my guns and magazines for compliance.

It really comes down to understanding the situation. We can all learn from one another. Everyone doesn't know everything. Lighten Up! We are a community. Freestate is very busy. Obviously Mark has been blessed with people willing to help out for free. Be a part of the community and help folks that don't know the rules there. I bet Freestate would appreciate it. Oh, and by the way. I buy bulk ammo sometimes. Loose. 500 rounds. I reuse boxes all the time.

 

[Kilroy]

Im going to freestate saturday night to show my support.

Can I come too? What time?

Anyone know the name of the Chinese restaurant the Freestate staff orders from? I'm always hungry when I leave, but don't know the area, so I go home to eat. Is there a pizza place nearby too?

As for the loaded magazine and loaded gun thing, I think it makes sense. First off, it's Randy's range, his rules. If they wanted to ban people in yellow shirts, they could.
About the loaded magazine thing, they inspect ammo, and ammo is hard to inspect when it's in the mags. Steel core ammo damages the range, and if people continually damaged the range, repair costs would spiral out of control and Freestate would have to shut down.

The loaded gun thing... I don't completely agree with this one, but I understand why they do it. A concealed carry gun has a tendency to come out for show and tell in a gun store. If that happens, you now have a customer literally playing with a loaded gun. Not cool. This ties in with the loaded magazine rule. Most of us are unconsciously trained that empty guns need reloading. Let's say you do a safety/ammo check at the front counter, slide is locked back... of course you slap a full mag in, because that's what you do with loaded guns. Again, we now have a customer playing with a loaded gun, who may not be mentally focused and aware of that.

That said, when you properly conceal carry, how many people are supposed to know you have a gun? That's right, nobody! Concealed carry is supposed to be a big fun game of Russian roulette for carjackers, muggers, and rapists. Do I have a gun? Or don't I? It's so exciting, nobody knows who's armed!
Don't ruin the fun for an aspiring criminal. Hide your gun, and don't wear those stupid "shoot me first" vests and pants.

 

[Mason-Dixon Baseball]

Can I come too? What time?

Anyone know the name of the Chinese restaurant the Freestate staff orders from? I'm always hungry when I leave, but don't know the area, so I go home to eat. Is there a pizza place nearby too?

As for the loaded magazine and loaded gun thing, I think it makes sense. First off, it's Randy's range, his rules. If they wanted to ban people in yellow shirts, they could.
About the loaded magazine thing, they inspect ammo, and ammo is hard to inspect when it's in the mags. Steel core ammo damages the range, and if people continually damaged the range, repair costs would spiral out of control and Freestate would have to shut down.

The loaded gun thing... I don't completely agree with this one, but I understand why they do it. A concealed carry gun has a tendency to come out for show and tell in a gun store. If that happens, you now have a customer literally playing with a loaded gun. Not cool. This ties in with the loaded magazine rule. Most of us are unconsciously trained that empty guns need reloading. Let's say you do a safety/ammo check at the front counter, slide is locked back... of course you slap a full mag in, because that's what you do with loaded guns. Again, we now have a customer playing with a loaded gun, who may not be mentally focused and aware of that.

That said, when you properly conceal carry, how many people are supposed to know you have a gun? That's right, nobody! Concealed carry is supposed to be a big fun game of Russian roulette for carjackers, muggers, and rapists. Do I have a gun? Or don't I? It's so exciting, nobody knows who's armed!
Don't ruin the fun for an aspiring criminal. Hide your gun, and don't wear those stupid "shoot me first" vests and pants.

You get it, man--- finally someone gets it!!!!!!

 

[FreeState]

Anyone know the name of the Chinese restaurant the Freestate staff orders from?

Answer: China Kitchen.