Is it worth the cash to buy big

[lazarus]

For those that like to load on single stage for some things but use a progressive for others, why not use a progressive and load one at a time as if it were a single stage? I’ve taught people how to use a progressive by going through each stage separately, explaining things as I went along. As Tickg pointed out above, the progressive can be used as a single stage, and still produce rounds faster than on a single stage Because the dies don’t have to be changed after each step.

You can. Just a question of what you are going for. A good single stage is probably going to be more accurate than a really good progressive. I guess just a question if the fraction of a thousandth of an inch matters to you. If you are measuring and trickling each powder drop, I don't think I'd want to do that on a progressive. Not that you can't, I just think the design of them doesn't lend itself to easily charging a cartridge anyway other than an automated powder drop. A single stage with a lee powder through expander or powder through charging die is the best way, IMHO. A lee classic with those dies also worked pretty well. Or the way I do it is I use the auto drum, pull the case out, measure, trickle if needed, back on the press. That's maybe a hair easier than a progressive. Probably not easier enough to really matter there though. Just more to reach through or around on a progressive depending on what station you are reaching for.

 

[smdub]

I don't see how a progressive is all that different powder charging than a single stage. Can drop charges manually through a funnel on a D650 as easy as any other press. They all use the exact same charge through expander die.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

If I can't devote myself to the task, I'll do something else. Sort brass, prep work, etc. With pistols, the main danger is a double charge. A squib will piss you off, especially if it happens to find it's way into your chamber during a match or a class. Unless you do something world record stupid (like shoot another one when I he last one made a weird noise and the target didn't take a hit), a range rod and you are back in business.

With rifles, the pressures are higher and all sorts of things can go wrong. One of my students had a batch of ammo that he loaded lock up the gun HARD. Once the gun was cleared, the case was recovered and there were extreme pressure signs. I looked at some other rounds from the box and asked a few very direct questions. The rounds looked VERY long and I know that the charge weight listed was at the top of the range for the powder listed. Turns out he had been loading multiple bullets and had not adjusted the seat die to the correct length. An extreme jam, plus a very hot charge, wasn't a winning combination.

Had a guy bring me a savage that was locked up tighter than a bank vault. Turns out he misread the load tables. Case failed, bolt head was catastrophically failed, and it gassed the shit out of him. He got treated for burns and some light frag. I took the barrel out of the rifle to relieve the bolt and action enough to get it apart (after triple checking that it was a FIRED case in the chamber). Inspected the receiver with a loupe once it was fully apart. I suggested that he get it x-rayed to be sure. He's still shooting it, with a new bolt head and barrel but with a much healthier respect for care in loading practices.

Another guy, not one of mine, at match blew up a rifle because his powder measure still had pistol powder in it and he put a full rifle weight charge of it into his creedmoor brass. Fortunately for him, it was a Defiance action and not a Remmy or a savage. He went to the hospital for sure but he lived.

I can keep going but I think I've belabored the point enough.

I've separated plenty of case heads by reloading cases too many times, had virgin cases fail, split, etc. I try to be darn careful and inspect things during multiple stages of the process.

ONE of the MOST important messages ANY reloader/shooter could and should read, and re-read.
4g64loser, You sir are a real asset to this Forum, and may save 1 or more lives/injuries through sharing your wisdom and cautions.

 

[Squaregrouper]

So somehow I landed on me wanting to get a Dillon 750xl. I didn’t realize it’s only 100+ more then the 550 and schells have a 100 online gift card with the purchase of one. With thoughts of me in the future getting and bullet feeder and for sure getting a case loader. Price wise all the conversion kits would bring the end setup to close to 3k of not more. If it should last 5 to 10 years that’s not the deciding factor. All 9mm aside, 308, 45, 40 223 would be the cost saving calibers and loading the used and abused 9 would be something else I would do. Then there’s the trimmer. Time is king and I’ve been looking at triway giraud timmer and the giraud table top to cut of the deburring. Setting up the triway with a motor or the unsightly drill Vice method is hundreds cheaper for the calibers I would use it for so there’s that. I figure start out doing a case at a time with the powder check and double checking would be a interesting cost effective way for me to start. I just don’t like the idea of manual indexing and would want to go full auto with the marks

Everyone will agree the Dillon XL750 is the superior press. If your finances permit its purchase, by all means go ahead and buy it.

 

[4g64loser]

ONE of the MOST important messages ANY reloader/shooter could and should read, and re-read.
4g64loser, You sir are a real asset to this Forum, and may save 1 or more lives/injuries through sharing your wisdom and cautions.

Thanks. I try to offer advice when it's something I can contribute to. I want guys to shoot (and load) safely. It's a lot like driving; if you keep your equipment in good condition, use good parts, and operate by the rules, it's very safe.

And smdub is exactly correct about the powder die. Dillon even sells a funnel that fits in the top of a stripped powder die for this very purpose. It works just fine. If you weigh charges, a test tube rack and tubes can easily accommodate 100 charges (bonus, you can visually examine them for weird volumes if you don't weigh and just drop) and you can simply dump one in the funnel when the ram is up. Lower ram, 750 auto indexes, place bullet, raise ram again, dump another tube, etc.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

4g64loser, smdub was sitting across from me at the PPPPP get together at the Essen Room the other weekend. From what I could hear of some of his discussions with dblas and eruby etc, he seems very knowledgeable about some good tech experiences he has under his belt. Nothing beats book learned knowledge combined with actual hands-on/ put into practice experiences as the acid test of things such as fully functional firearm builds, ammo production, etc.

 

[smdub]

Hey, hey, hey, don't make me go lookin' smarter than I am

I've done a lot of pistol, very little bottlenecked rifle. I will go against the grain here and say we used to do TONS of pistol back in the day sitting on the couch, watching TV, on a single stage Lee. Maybe even drinking a little beer? Prime a zillion cases and set on one side of table. Throw powder w/ the Lee autodisk (before we could afford that we used the Lee 'scoops') and set the case on the other side of the coffee table. After a couple hundred cases on the table, use a flashlight and look down in all of them to verify the right amount of powder (don't know that we ever had an empty or double charge but we checked anyway.) We did on occasion have a missing primer but that's fairly obvious when you throw powder and it leaks out. Swap dies in the Lee and put the bullets in and crimp, set back on the empty side of the coffee table. Pretty simple.

We eventually drilled some pockets in a board to make holders for the cases so they wouldn't get knocked over so easy. Also made counting easier. Three of us did it this way. Shot a lot of 357/38/9mm in college w/ my room mates.

I don't think I'd do this today w/ a progressive. A *LOT* more is going on every pull and it demands more attention just to keep everything fed. But I wouldn't give up a turret/progressive for the world now

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Hey, hey, hey, don't make me go lookin' smarter than I am

I've done a lot of pistol, very little bottlenecked rifle. I will go against the grain here and say we used to do TONS of pistol back in the day sitting on the couch, watching TV, on a single stage Lee. Maybe even dringing a little beer? Prime a zillion cases and set on one side of table. Throw powder w/ the Lee autodisk (before we could afford that we used the Lee 'scoops') and set the case on the other side of the coffee table. After a couple hundred cases on the table, use a flashlight and look down in all of them to verify the right amount of powder (don't know that we ever had an empty or double charge but we checked anyway.) We did on occasion have a missing primer but that's fairly obvious when you throw powder and it leaks out. Swap dies in the Lee and put the bullets in and crimp, set back on the empty side of the coffee table. Pretty simple.

We eventually drilled some pockets in a board to make holders for the cases so they wouldn't get knocked over so easy. Also made counting easier. Three of us did it this way. Shot a lot of 357/38/9mm in college w/ my room mates.

I don't think I'd do this today w/ a progressive. A *LOT* more is going on every pull and it demands more attention just to keep everything fed. But I wouldn't give up a turret/progressive for the world now

Great to hear from you, dub.
I may "shoot" you a PM.