Kyle Rittenhouse being sued

[lazarus]

Not talking so much about the difference between Criminal vs Civil as I am about the jury pools of the community and the mindset that they showed in the criminal trial. I personally don't see much difference in juror's having a different rationale between the two in deciding a civil case !

I would suggest getting educated in what the difference is between civil law and criminal law. I am not saying he will be found liable, but liability and guilt are vastly different things with vastly different standards. He has real jeopardy of being found liable. For instance, "he should have known better" putting himself in a situation that turned bad can be used to show he has liability for how things turned out. Civil liability isn't an all or nothing thing.

I would hope he isn't, but this is not remotely as simple as juror attitude and that he was found innocent in a criminal trial.

 

[owldo]

I would suggest getting educated in what the difference is between civil law and criminal law. I am not saying he will be found liable, but liability and guilt are vastly different things with vastly different standards. He has real jeopardy of being found liable. For instance, "he should have known better" putting himself in a situation that turned bad can be used to show he has liability for how things turned out. Civil liability isn't an all or nothing thing.

I would hope he isn't, but this is not remotely as simple as juror attitude and that he was found innocent in a criminal trial.

To me it would be that simple if I were a juror. No way do I find a person liable for actively trying to escape a mob of people trying to do him bodily harm and then killing 2 of them who were attacking him and wounding a 3rd, a felon with a gun who he shot before he had a chance to shoot him. Maybe I am naive to the differences, but unless the over all facts in the case between criminal vs civil are vastly different or not allowed, I would find him innocent. I guess this case will ultimately be decided by jury selection.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Maybe I am naive to the differences

No disrespect . But yes .

Criminal = Beyond Reasonable Doubt
Civil = 50.000001 % in favor of the plaintiffs .


High Profile example - O.J. Simpson .

Not guilty of Murder , millions $ civil judgement .


Yes , Kyle has strong defense , and $hithead has very uphill to make his case . But it's not a lock , or impossible .

 

[Blacksmith101]

No disrespect . But yes .

Criminal = Beyond Reasonable Doubt
Civil = 50.000001 % in favor of the plaintiffs .


High Profile example - O.J. Simpson .

Not guilty of Murder , millions $ civil judgement .


Yes , Kyle has strong defense , and $hithead has very uphill to make his case . But it's not a lock , or impossible .

IMHO one of those judgements was wrong.

 

[HaveBlue]

In a fair society Kyle should have already sued the estates of the people that attacked him.

 

[Jim12]

Nope.

Hamlet is trying to decide whether to live a life suffering the ongoing insult of his father's murderer and faithless mother occupying the crown (suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune - the bad crap that happens to you, outside of your control - where suffering it means to continue to live with it), or take up a fight against those that put those events in motion, and quite possibly get killed in the process of ending that insult. It's only a contemplation of suicide in the very indirect sense that he knows the odds are long against him in taking up those arms. That's not the same as weighing whether to tolerate the intolerable or kill himself. And but for a bit of craven poison on a blade, he'd have beat those odds and lived to enjoy the justice that he did in fact still manage to deliver before dying. Not by killing himself, but by way of more of the treachery he presciently worried (in his soliloquy) about happening during his just fight.

His speech marks his concern that he might be paralyzed and fail to act, out of fear of failure in seeking justice, and death - even while acknowledging that death would free him of caring about his father's murder (or anything else, either). It also marks the turning point, where he seeks a third path - neither tolerating the insult, nor directly marching straight into the throne room with a sword to avenge his father. And the rest of the play is him carrying out that crafty third way.

One could argue that our revolutionary founders made the same bargain and gamble. Continue to suffer the slings and arrows of King George's tyranny, or literally put their lives on the line against long odds, opposing those troubles and reckoning with death as a strong possibility, even a near certainty. Many colonists felt the paralysis that Hamlet feared more than death, but enough didn't. And as with Hamlet's cleverness and moments of unlikely fortune as he sought his goal, guys like Washington got it done amid just the misery he knew would happen. But unlike Hamlet, he (and thus we!) managed to avoid a nick from a poison blade on the way to liberty.

I'd actually be surprised if the many debates in advance of the Declaration in 1776 didn't include at least one erudite colonist quoting Hamlet to another over an ale along the way.

I would take the time to respond to express my thoughts, but it would be much easier to have ChatGBT respond on my behalf. Oh, wait.

 

[MaxVO2]

In a fair society Kyle should have already sued the estates of the people that attacked him.

*****After reading some of the "bios" and backgrounds of the people that attacked him - all of them together seem to have been worth less than a warm pitcher of piss - both from a financial standpoint, and from a human standpoint. The one guy, the pedophile - was an absolutely detestable human being and the media seemingly covered up just how bad a guy he was to make it seem like Kyle was the bad guy. The others were your usual assortment of loser malcontents, wife and girlfriend beaters, and petty criminals with records, who were chronically unemployed or underemployed/unemployable. Our society has lots of people like this now because we allow it.

I hope Kyle wins, but juries are often a crap shoot and anything could happen.

 

[Occam]

I would take the time to respond to express my thoughts, but it would be much easier to have ChatGBT respond on my behalf. Oh, wait.

If you’re suggesting that those aren’t my own thoughts, well … bring your rapier to the Convent of the Carmes Dechausses - say, noon tomorrow?

 

[GTOGUNNER]

No disrespect . But yes .

Criminal = Beyond Reasonable Doubt
Civil = 50.000001 % in favor of the plaintiffs .


High Profile example - O.J. Simpson .

Not guilty of Murder , millions $ civil judgement .


Yes , Kyle has strong defense , and $hithead has very uphill to make his case . But it's not a lock , or impossible .

A good judge will end the case before the jury renders a decision.

 

[sajidakh]

If Kyle was my son I would be proud of him.

He stood on his principles.

If he was your son it'd mean you're kind of a dumbass dropping him in the middle of a protest where people are burning buildings with a rifle and saying "well pick you up at midnight."

 

[OMD6dawg]

A good judge will end the case before the jury renders a decision.

Y’all really don’t understand how it works. A good judge will allow the evidence to be presented and the jury will decide. You could consider Kyle the greatest human being this decade, if the evidence points to him being present and inciting the “derelicts“ to attack him, he will be found liable, regardless of what anyone thinks. Was the outcome directly related to one’s action? That’s how civil liability works.

 

[blipper]

Bernard Goetz, the Subway Shooter, was acquitted on criminal attempted murder charges but found liable for $1M + damages to those he believed were attempting to rob him and I think his case for self defense was stronger than Rittenhouse’s (though I agree with the verdict in that case).

 

[trickg]

Bernard Goetz, the Subway Shooter, was acquitted on criminal attempted murder charges but found liable for $1M + damages to those he believed were attempting to rob him and I think his case for self defense was stronger than Rittenhouse’s (though I agree with the verdict in that case).

Based on what I’ve read about the Bernard Goetz incident, there is no way that his self defense case was stronger than Rittenhouse’s.

 

[robslamka]

The City of Kenosha Police need a swift kick in the ass here and in cases like the police shooting of Jacob Blake, Michael Bell Jr. and failing to properly investigate the beating and home invasion of a hometown attorney in 2022. The police should never have allowed the '15 year old looking ' 17 year old to parade around the streets with an AR-15 during an out of hand protest entering the darkness of evening. The results were predictable.

The verdict was orchestrated by a judge who immediately moved to drop weapons charges in this case and a D.A. ( Michael Gravely) who was more concerned about a visit from "Jews will not replace us" white supremacists, than justice.. they already had enough of that crowd living in Kenosha already ...Kyle , and Kenosha are lucky that the victims of his shooting were all white, as if they were otherwise, Ben Crump would be doing the sueing.

There were no "heroes" present in Kenosha that night ( or today) and Kyle Rittenhouse had no business carrying an AR-15 for any reason that night (or ever again, for that matter) Remember, the lawsuit is authorized also against the PD, who will immediately claim 'qualified immunity' and likely receive it!

 

[Afrikeber]

Right, wrong or indifferent Rittenhouse will be found civilly liable. The question is for how much. Welcome to Merica.

 

[Jim12]

If you’re suggesting that those aren’t my own thoughts, well … bring your rapier to the Convent of the Carmes Dechausses - say, noon tomorrow?

Lol. Hardly. It is I who would need an AI assist to respond to your brilliant analysis.

 

[outrider58]

One could argue that our revolutionary founders made the same bargain and gamble. Continue to suffer the slings and arrows of King George's tyranny, or literally put their lives on the line against long odds, opposing those troubles and reckoning with death as a strong possibility, even a near certainty. Many colonists felt the paralysis that Hamlet feared more than death, but enough didn't. And as with Hamlet's cleverness and moments of unlikely fortune as he sought his goal, guys like Washington got it done amid just the misery he knew would happen. But unlike Hamlet, he (and thus we!) managed to avoid a nick from a poison blade on the way to liberty.

I'd actually be surprised if the many debates in advance of the Declaration in 1776 didn't include at least one erudite colonist quoting Hamlet to another over an ale along the way.

Very similar to where we find ourselves today, though today's enemy is embedded within our borders. When is enough, enough? And when does enough become too much?

 

[gtodave]

The City of Kenosha Police need a swift kick in the ass here and in cases like the police shooting of Jacob Blake, Michael Bell Jr. and failing to properly investigate the beating and home invasion of a hometown attorney in 2022. The police should never have allowed the '15 year old looking ' 17 year old to parade around the streets with an AR-15 during an out of hand protest entering the darkness of evening. The results were predictable.

The verdict was orchestrated by a judge who immediately moved to drop weapons charges in this case and a D.A. ( Michael Gravely) who was more concerned about a visit from "Jews will not replace us" white supremacists, than justice.. they already had enough of that crowd living in Kenosha already ...Kyle , and Kenosha are lucky that the victims of his shooting were all white, as if they were otherwise, Ben Crump would be doing the sueing.

There were no "heroes" present in Kenosha that night ( or today) and Kyle Rittenhouse had no business carrying an AR-15 for any reason that night (or ever again, for that matter) Remember, the lawsuit is authorized also against the PD, who will immediately claim 'qualified immunity' and likely receive it!

If the police had stopped the rioters from looting and burning, Rittenhouse wouldn't have ever been there in the first place.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Lots of sideways inbetween .

Back at judge stopping before it starts . In criminal cases there are multiple occasions where the defense will call for Dismissal , due to State not proving a prima face case Beyond a Reasonable Doubt .

In Civil cases the Preponderance standard is low enough to rarely have a dismissal , as long as Plaintiff presents anything vaguely relevant .

 

[robslamka]

If the police had stopped the rioters from looting and burning, Rittenhouse wouldn't have ever been there in the first place.

EXTREMELY TRUE!!