Learning Reloading: HOW To, What to, and What not to ...

[DaemonAssassin]

Yeah buddy, Blacksmith101

After Thursday when I pick up my primers, I hope to make some freedom seeds of my own soon.

Do you know the anatomy of a pew?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Do you know the anatomy of a pew?

Love it!!!!!!

 

[Ponder_MD]

Can you see any residue on the mouth of the container?

Nope. I think they may have forgot to put the seal thing on that bottle.
Last night I opened a brand new of H335. This bottle did exactly as you said- There was some resistance at first as I broke the seal. When I unscrewed the cap, there was a thin membrane that I lifted off.

I think the IMR4064 somehow got skipped or the seal just didn't take. It seems fine. No odd colors or odors and it shot fine. Just a packaging defect, I guess.

 

[BFMIN]

I've had them "get stuck up inside the lid" see if a pick pulls something out of there.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Ok Fellas,

As I am working my way up to get my reloader and bench all set up, MY first efforts were with my new Hornady Lock n Load Single Stage press back in Sept 18, 2010. My data shows Sierra 130 gr, CCI Primer, Federal case, IMR 4350

Now, 14 years later I am figuring out which bullet weights/types to use for handgun loads.

My first handguns were 1911, .357 and 44 Mag, but I have added a Glock in 40 S&W, and a Sig in 9MM/ I
have no shots through the 9mm and have not bought any ammo for it yet.

In my Ruger Super Blackhawk, I have shot exclusively 240 gr American Eagle Hollow points.
In my 1911 45acp, American Eagle 230 gr FMJ, and Winchester WB 230 gr FMJ,
In my Ruger GP100 Sellier and Bellot 158 gr, and Winchester WB 130gr 38 spl wad cutters
In my Glock G23, Shot 1 box of Armscor 180gr FMJ. I also have a full box of Herter's 180 gr FMJ, a full box of Blazer 165gr FMJ, and a case of Federal 40 S&W 180FMJ.

I told 4g64loser that I wanted to begin with loading .270 because those dies should be set from 2010. He recommended that I begin reloading .38 Spl using some 148gr with 2.7- 3gr of Bullseye. I was going to try 148 gr in the spent 38 spl cases I have. Any cons to trying 130 gr for the 38 spl like the spent box of WWB, that I have?

For reloading .357 magnum rounds, I plan to use my spent brass and to break down the 50 unknown hand loads. I will use up the box of 500 158 gr Round Nose, that I mentioned above. Looks like IMR PB, Unique and Bullseye are some good choices in 357 pushing the 158 gr

My other uncertain choices will be when I do reload 40 s&w and 9mm if I decide to load my own 9mm.
Should I stick with 180 gr in the 40, and what are the best 9mm's to get?


FYI, my powders I have or have access to are these:


IMR:
PB
4831
4895
4064
4198
4350

Hercules:
Bullseye, Unique

Hodgden
H110

Winchester:
WST

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

4g64loser also mentioned this.

For a snottier load, use hard cast 158s.

4831 and 4350 for .270 and .25- 06.

Depending on bullet weight, 4895 and 4064 will do you right in 3006 and 22250. 4350 in heavy bullet 3006.

223 really depends on the bullet and what action.....4198 works for the light stuff but Benchmark will kick its ass for speed. I've loaded 4064 and 4895 to clone mk262 (77gr match) as well as 8208xbr and a couple others. I've cranked shit WAY up for the 223 match rifle I built for my buddy. Those loads would break an AR for sure. It's a Zermatt origin action. And the chamber is custom. It is optimized for 80-90gr VLDd.

 

[trickg]

There are a lot of good options there for the things you want to load. (this post got A LOT longer than I'd intended - my apologies for the great wall of text)

For 45 auto, I tend to use a lot of 200 gr bullets - mostly plated round nose from XTreme Bullets. In fact, I use a lot of XTreme bullets for my pistol loading. They aren't the cheapest bullets out there, but they seem to be pretty consistent in terms of quality, and the plating mitigates leading. Also, I think part of the reason I like 200 gr bullets over 230s is because it mitigates recoil - it's a physic problem. The heavier the bullet, the harder it pushes back, to a degree anyway.

For 9mm, I tend to mostly use 124 gr hollow point when they are available - the Xtreme HP shouldn't be confused with any other kind of defense HP - supposedly the HP helps to stabilize the bullet or something or other. In any case, that's what I buy, or I just get the plain round nose.

For 40, I think I loaded 165 gr plated flat nose bullets.

For 223 for AR I load almost exclusively 55 gr FMJ bullets (for my varmint loads, so far I've only used 50 gr Hornady VMax) because they work well in my ARs, and they seem to do ok out of my precision rifle too, which favors lighter/shorter bullets due to the 1:12 twist of the barrel. If I'm loading my varmint rounds, I use Benchmark for those - superior accuracy and speed, and the Zermatt Origin can handle the pressure of just about anything I throw at it.

I don't load a lot of 38 anymore, but in the past I loaded a lot of 158 gr bullets - they seem to do pretty well.

What's fun about reloading, at least for me, are the options available and figuring out what I want to load. I almost always consult at least 2 manuals before I put together a load for anything though - sometimes 3. I try to find a loading that's a middle-of-the-road loading that matches in all 3 manuals. The way I see it, that hedges my bets that it's going to be a safe load, particularly if I'm just putting together range fodder reloads.

Generally speaking, these are the powders I've used for the calibers I've loaded:

38 spc - Bullseye, W231/HP38
357 Magnum - 2400 (I've only loaded this with a Montana Gold 125 gr JHP)
40 S&W - Longshot (I don't shoot this enough to have run out of the reloads I've made)
41 Mag - AA#9, Herco (I mainly used the Herco as a means to try to use it up, and it's decent for large Magnum pistol)
44 Mag - Unique, Herco (Didn't care for the Herco - LOVE Unique, even if it is dirty)
9mm - Bullseye, W231/HP38, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Universal
45 Auto - Bullseye, W231/HP38, Power Pistol, Longshot, Titegroup, Universal
223 - 3031, CFE223, AA2230, TAC, Benchmark

For my semi auto pistols, I really like Bullseye as just general target load powder - it's economical, accurate, and gets the job done, even if it is a bit dirty. I've used other powders, mainly just to see how they'd perform, but I really like Bullseye, and apparently my Dad did too - he used it for 45 Auto, 38 and 9mm, although he also used a lot of Unique for the 45. He used a lot of Unique anyway - going down through his ledgers from 1958 to his passing in 1997, Bulleye and Unique show up for more pistol loads than anything else, so I don't think it's a mistake that I also like using Bullseye.

 

[Uncle Duke]

There are a lot of good options there for the things you want to load. (this post got A LOT longer than I'd intended - my apologies for the great wall of text)

For 45 auto, I tend to use a lot of 200 gr bullets - mostly plated round nose from XTreme Bullets. In fact, I use a lot of XTreme bullets for my pistol loading. They aren't the cheapest bullets out there, but they seem to be pretty consistent in terms of quality, and the plating mitigates leading. Also, I think part of the reason I like 200 gr bullets over 230s is because it mitigates recoil - it's a physic problem. The heavier the bullet, the harder it pushes back, to a degree anyway.

For 9mm, I tend to mostly use 124 gr hollow point when they are available - the Xtreme HP shouldn't be confused with any other kind of defense HP - supposedly the HP helps to stabilize the bullet or something or other. In any case, that's what I buy, or I just get the plain round nose.

For 40, I think I loaded 165 gr plated flat nose bullets.

For 223 for AR I load almost exclusively 55 gr FMJ bullets (for my varmint loads, so far I've only used 50 gr Hornady VMax) because they work well in my ARs, and they seem to do ok out of my precision rifle too, which favors lighter/shorter bullets due to the 1:12 twist of the barrel. If I'm loading my varmint rounds, I use Benchmark for those - superior accuracy and speed, and the Zermatt Origin can handle the pressure of just about anything I throw at it.

I don't load a lot of 38 anymore, but in the past I loaded a lot of 158 gr bullets - they seem to do pretty well.

What's fun about reloading, at least for me, are the options available and figuring out what I want to load. I almost always consult at least 2 manuals before I put together a load for anything though - sometimes 3. I try to find a loading that's a middle-of-the-road loading that matches in all 3 manuals. The way I see it, that hedges my bets that it's going to be a safe load, particularly if I'm just putting together range fodder reloads.

Generally speaking, these are the powders I've used for the calibers I've loaded:

38 spc - Bullseye, W231/HP38
357 Magnum - 2400 (I've only loaded this with a Montana Gold 125 gr JHP)
40 S&W - Longshot (I don't shoot this enough to have run out of the reloads I've made)
41 Mag - AA#9, Herco (I mainly used the Herco as a means to try to use it up, and it's decent for large Magnum pistol)
44 Mag - Unique, Herco (Didn't care for the Herco - LOVE Unique, even if it is dirty)
9mm - Bullseye, W231/HP38, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Universal
45 Auto - Bullseye, W231/HP38, Power Pistol, Longshot, Titegroup, Universal
223 - 3031, CFE223, AA2230, TAC, Benchmark

For my semi auto pistols, I really like Bullseye as just general target load powder - it's economical, accurate, and gets the job done, even if it is a bit dirty. I've used other powders, mainly just to see how they'd perform, but I really like Bullseye, and apparently my Dad did too - he used it for 45 Auto, 38 and 9mm, although he also used a lot of Unique for the 45. He used a lot of Unique anyway - going down through his ledgers from 1958 to his passing in 1997, Bulleye and Unique show up for more pistol loads than anything else, so I don't think it's a mistake that I also like using Bullseye.

Bullseye has been a tried and true staple for years. The "148 grain" recommendation mentioned for 38 Special in Post #45 is undoubtedly the lead wadcutter, likely hollow based, with "2.7 to 3 grains of Bullseye". That load range has been so extremely popular amongst 38 Special revolver shooters for so many years that the recommendation was likely very quickly mentioned from memory. Some loads are like that when they've been so good for so long.

With regard to Unique, if I were forced to have only one pistol powder on the shelf to work with across just about the entire handgun spectrum? It would be Unique. The powder is aptly named. It is indeed rather unique with regard to what it can be used for. It certainly isn't always the best choice necessarily. But it's likely to be a good and almost surely a workable choice. Your father no doubt liked Unique for very good reasons.

With both of those powders, it's not coincidence that they've both been around for 125 years and counting.

 

[trickg]

^^ Yep - you hit the nail on the head there.

It took years before I was finally able to get my hands on my Dad's reloading ledgers, and they were something I'd wanted for a long long time. Mom is funny about that though - she basically made me go to Nebraska to find them in a box in the garage, and as funny as this might be, they were in the very first box I looked in.

In any case, I excitedly started going through those ledgers thinking I'd get some kind of insight about reloading from a guy who probably forgot more about reloading than I'll ever know. What I actually found was kind of surprising - that the things I'd come to on my own were some of the exact same things he'd been doing for years and years, and with pretty much the exact same powders. But it did boost my confidence greatly to find that things were all more similar than different.

 

[Squaregrouper]

For 9mm and .357 Sig, the RMR Nuke is a great bullet. Killer hollowpoints at a good price.
.

9mm 124 Gr. RMR JHP (MPR NUKE) | RMR Bullets

We have been wanting to make a really good self defense HP for a while now. In the past our biggest issue with the MPR (Multi Purpose Round) was that it required 1150-1200 fps to reliably expand. This was doable through full size firearms, but left the short barrel conceal carry guns without...

www.rmrbullets.com

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

There are a lot of good options there for the things you want to load. (this post got A LOT longer than I'd intended - my apologies for the great wall of text)

For 45 auto, I tend to use a lot of 200 gr bullets - mostly plated round nose from XTreme Bullets. In fact, I use a lot of XTreme bullets for my pistol loading. They aren't the cheapest bullets out there, but they seem to be pretty consistent in terms of quality, and the plating mitigates leading. Also, I think part of the reason I like 200 gr bullets over 230s is because it mitigates recoil - it's a physic problem. The heavier the bullet, the harder it pushes back, to a degree anyway.

For 9mm, I tend to mostly use 124 gr hollow point when they are available - the Xtreme HP shouldn't be confused with any other kind of defense HP - supposedly the HP helps to stabilize the bullet or something or other. In any case, that's what I buy, or I just get the plain round nose.

For 40, I think I loaded 165 gr plated flat nose bullets.

For 223 for AR I load almost exclusively 55 gr FMJ bullets (for my varmint loads, so far I've only used 50 gr Hornady VMax) because they work well in my ARs, and they seem to do ok out of my precision rifle too, which favors lighter/shorter bullets due to the 1:12 twist of the barrel. If I'm loading my varmint rounds, I use Benchmark for those - superior accuracy and speed, and the Zermatt Origin can handle the pressure of just about anything I throw at it.

I don't load a lot of 38 anymore, but in the past I loaded a lot of 158 gr bullets - they seem to do pretty well.

What's fun about reloading, at least for me, are the options available and figuring out what I want to load. I almost always consult at least 2 manuals before I put together a load for anything though - sometimes 3. I try to find a loading that's a middle-of-the-road loading that matches in all 3 manuals. The way I see it, that hedges my bets that it's going to be a safe load, particularly if I'm just putting together range fodder reloads.

Generally speaking, these are the powders I've used for the calibers I've loaded:

38 spc - Bullseye, W231/HP38
357 Magnum - 2400 (I've only loaded this with a Montana Gold 125 gr JHP)
40 S&W - Longshot (I don't shoot this enough to have run out of the reloads I've made)
41 Mag - AA#9, Herco (I mainly used the Herco as a means to try to use it up, and it's decent for large Magnum pistol)
44 Mag - Unique, Herco (Didn't care for the Herco - LOVE Unique, even if it is dirty)
9mm - Bullseye, W231/HP38, Power Pistol, Titegroup, Universal
45 Auto - Bullseye, W231/HP38, Power Pistol, Longshot, Titegroup, Universal
223 - 3031, CFE223, AA2230, TAC, Benchmark

For my semi auto pistols, I really like Bullseye as just general target load powder - it's economical, accurate, and gets the job done, even if it is a bit dirty. I've used other powders, mainly just to see how they'd perform, but I really like Bullseye, and apparently my Dad did too - he used it for 45 Auto, 38 and 9mm, although he also used a lot of Unique for the 45. He used a lot of Unique anyway - going down through his ledgers from 1958 to his passing in 1997, Bulleye and Unique show up for more pistol loads than anything else, so I don't think it's a mistake that I also like using Bullseye.

trickg,

As I told you in PM. Never hesitate to be complete in your thoughts just to make it short to read. I often revise my messages to make them more efficient and yet still include everything. I would like to see Dad's ledgers. To a newb, it sure could help as a guide on how to do our own records.

Like my other post said, you, 4g64, squaregrouper and many others have taught me a lot already.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Bullseye has been a tried and true staple for years. The "148 grain" recommendation mentioned for 38 Special in Post #45 is undoubtedly the lead wadcutter, likely hollow based, with "2.7 to 3 grains of Bullseye". That load range has been so extremely popular amongst 38 Special revolver shooters for so many years that the recommendation was likely very quickly mentioned from memory. Some loads are like that when they've been so good for so long.

With regard to Unique, if I were forced to have only one pistol powder on the shelf to work with across just about the entire handgun spectrum? It would be Unique. The powder is aptly named. It is indeed rather unique with regard to what it can be used for. It certainly isn't always the best choice necessarily. But it's likely to be a good and almost surely a workable choice. Your father no doubt liked Unique for very good reasons.

With both of those powders, it's not coincidence that they've both been around for 125 years and counting.

Thanks Uncle Duke,

HEY that is funny, I actually had a wonderful Uncle, his name was Uncle Duke too.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

For 9mm and .357 Sig, the RMR Nuke is a great bullet. Killer hollowpoints at a good price.
.

9mm 124 Gr. RMR JHP (MPR NUKE) | RMR Bullets

We have been wanting to make a really good self defense HP for a while now. In the past our biggest issue with the MPR (Multi Purpose Round) was that it required 1150-1200 fps to reliably expand. This was doable through full size firearms, but left the short barrel conceal carry guns without...

www.rmrbullets.com

Thanks SG,

This is really weird. None of trickg's, Uncle Duke, or your messages gave me an alert that anyone replied to this topic all day today since my posts 45 and 46.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

357 Magnum - 2400 (I've only loaded this with a Montana Gold 125 gr JHP)

Somehow even before googling, I thought this might be an Alliant powder.
Seems like I had a sample of a good number of makers, but no Alliant.
Maybe I will go for some RMR or Montana Gold 125 gr bullets and add some 2400 to my stock.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Here is one thing for new reloaders to learn and understand...
When looking at min/max powder charges in a manual, avoid powders with a very small window between minimum and maximum charge until you are confident in your skills. This is the sign of an unforgiving powder, and you need to be really precise with your charge or bad things can happen.
Take note of H110 vs Acc.#9 for .44 Magnum.
.

 

[danimalw]

Here is one thing for new reloaders to learn and understand...
When looking at min/max powder charges in a manual, avoid powders with a very small window between minimum and maximum charge until you are confident in your skills. This is the sign of an unforgiving powder, and you need to be really precise with your charge or bad things can happen.
Take note of H110 vs Acc.#9 for .44 Magnum.
.
View attachment 452631

Great point SG.

And your pic is perfect for the next point. I've seen this mentioned a ton online that H110 and W296 are "the same powder" but why is the min,/max data different?!?! I'll stick with what the books say and treat them differently.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Great point SG.

And your pic is perfect for the next point. I've seen this mentioned a ton online that H110 and W296 are "the same powder" but why is the min,/max data different?!?! I'll stick with what the books say and treat them differently.

The data pictured is from Lyman 50th. I'm sure other manuals will be slightly different. I prefer to get at least 2 published loads that jibe with each other before moving forward. I never get load data from a random Reddit post or Youtube video.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

Squaregrouper,

Good catch there. From that breakdown, it looks like 296 is in a similar 1 gr range, and both H110 and 296 show some of the highest velocities along with N110. Where I would make my mental cautions would be in the Pressure C U P. between the various powder choices.

Do you recommend starting out at or close to the " Starting grains" levels, test the loads through a chronigraph to see how your numbers compare to the published velocities, and adjust from there but keep a safe zone cushion below the max?

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

The data pictured is from Lyman 50th. I'm sure other manuals will be slightly different. I prefer to get at least 2 published loads that jibe with each other before moving forward. I never get load data from a random Reddit post or Youtube video.

SG,

I was going to say that too. I have 2 editions of the Lee manual, and one Hornady.
The Lyman looks like a good one too.

Now to go along with what danimal was asking, I had seen in your chart where there is IMR 4227 and H4227. look at their variation in numbers. In some notes I had regarding my first loads of .270 back in 2010 when my buddy was helping me do my first session ever. I saw the powder he wrote down on the log as IMR H 4350. I do have 4350 but it is IMR and no H4350. By the Lee Manual for 130 Gr, Jacketed bullets, I am showing IMR 4350 starts at 50.2gr and max is 55.0, while H4350 is 51.0 and 54.3.

What does your Lyman manual say for these 2 powders and 130 gr Jacketed bullets?

Also, after typing the above question about the 4350 powders, I read the section of the Lee manual called, How to read load data. Under Powder Type, it says, Hodg sells a 4350, IMR has a 4350, and Western sells Accurate 4350, Then it says they are similar but their tests indicate differences in VMD. Don't substitute one powder for the other and that each has their own data and that the Lee manual has each type notated in the manual.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Squaregrouper,

Good catch there. From that breakdown, it looks like 296 is in a similar 1 gr range, and both H110 and 296 show some of the highest velocities along with N110. Where I would make my mental cautions would be in the Pressure C U P. between the various powder choices.

Do you recommend starting out at or close to the " Starting grains" levels, test the loads through a chronigraph to see how your numbers compare to the published velocities, and adjust from there but keep a safe zone cushion below the max?

The rule of thumb is to start 10% below max. Interestingly enough, with the H110 loads pictured above, that would take you below the minimum load- thus the powder selection quandary.
Always approach max loads with caution.