Leave Your Guns At Home, Howard County

[danb]

I believe so, yes.

 

[Andybrown]

Housing Commission is a separate entity from County proper. However, County employees can be "borrowed/loaned" with no red tape. The exec rules.

 

[TopTechAgent]

I still haven't heard back from Allan Kittleman on how he thinks this is going to keep Howard County a safer place. I sent him an official inquiry as his constituent and expect an answer. I want to know what stats he has showing a problem in the first place.

I also will be inquiring on the instances of County Police that have "incidents" with their firearms while off duty and on private property. The reason for this is that I know of a handful of situations where it was the HoCo police that were miss behaving etc. I think the stats will probably show there is a greater problem with police and their guns than citizens. Didn't a police officer recently get in a fight and bite some guy in the nuts? Was he armed?

I will give you an example: At Merriweather Post Pavilion I witnessed a group of off duty HoCo police officers (drunk) harassing other concert goers who happened to be smoking a joint. One police officer pulled out his badge, and I could tell they were carrying their firearms. Looked like he was young officer and probably right out of the academy. With some liquid courage he kept pressing this group of people about their behavior. His friends told him to back down and he didn't. The concert goers realized that the police officer was drunk/off duty/and being well....a dick.

After a bit of "discussion" back and forth the concert goer (with a large group of friends behind him) actually snatched the badge out of the police officers hand!

The words went something like this. "How about I take your badge and mail it to your supervisor with a description of what is happening right now". "What is your boss going to say when he finds out you are drunk and waving your badge around. What will he say when he learns you lost your badge? I really couldn't believe this guy just ripped the badge out of his hand but this is exactly what happened.

You would think that this would lead to a physical altercation but instead his friends were BEGGING for the badge back and apologizing for their actions. They didn't want any reports being written up on that one!

So my point is...maybe we should have a new law in the county that keeps the police officers from wearing their guns off duty. I mean after all it just increases the chances of accidents and miss use. (according to Kittleman Logic).

 

[danb]

I still haven't heard back from Allan Kittleman on how he thinks this is going to keep Howard County a safer place. I sent him an official inquiry as his constituent and expect an answer. I want to know what stats he has showing a problem in the first place.

I also will be inquiring on the instances of County Police that have "incidents" with their firearms while off duty and on private property. The reason for this is that I know of a handful of situations where it was the HoCo police that were miss behaving etc. I think the stats will probably show there is a greater problem with police and their guns than citizens. Didn't a police officer recently get in a fight and bite some guy in the nuts? Was he armed?

I will give you an example: At Merriweather Post Pavilion I witnessed a group of off duty HoCo police officers (drunk) harassing other concert goers who happened to be smoking a joint. One police officer pulled out his badge, and I could tell they were carrying their firearms. Looked like he was young officer and probably right out of the academy. With some liquid courage he kept pressing this group of people about their behavior. His friends told him to back down and he didn't. The concert goers realized that the police officer was drunk/off duty/and being well....a dick.

After a bit of "discussion" back and forth the concert goer (with a large group of friends behind him) actually snatched the badge out of the police officers hand!

The words went something like this. "How about I take your badge and mail it to your supervisor with a description of what is happening right now". "What is your boss going to say when he finds out you are drunk and waving your badge around. What will he say when he learns you lost your badge? I really couldn't believe this guy just ripped the badge out of his hand but this is exactly what happened.

You would think that this would lead to a physical altercation but instead his friends were BEGGING for the badge back and apologizing for their actions. They didn't want any reports being written up on that one!

So my point is...maybe we should have a new law in the county that keeps the police officers from wearing their guns off duty. I mean after all it just increases the chances of accidents and miss use. (according to Kittleman Logic).

sigh, no. What we need is to fix the law so that everyone can carry, and then ensure that laws involving [carrying firearms, driving, etc.] while under the influence are enforced equally. If they were carrying while under the influence, they might have been concerned about something other than a mere report.

 

[TopTechAgent]

sigh, no. What we need is to fix the law so that everyone can carry, and then ensure that laws involving [carrying firearms, driving, etc.] while under the influence are enforced equally. If they were carrying while under the influence, they might have been concerned about something other than a mere report.

Agree.

When I suggested the new law I was being sarcastic...using Kittleman Logic.

 

[pbharvey]

The county has county gov/agency occupied rental space all over the county. Since the law only addresses county buildings on county owned property, how is Mr. Kittleman going to protect those poor vulnerable county employees assigned to those buildings?

 

[HarCo2ANewb]

Still better than Watson.

 

[TopTechAgent]

I received a response from David Lee Director of Constituent Services and Community Partnerships. Read Below:

Dear XXXXX

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with County Executive Allan Kittleman regarding his action on Council Bill 8-2015 (CB 8-2015). Keeping county employees and residents safe is one of his top priorities.

The County Executive had concerns with CB 8-2015, as approved by the County Council, in that the Bill does not provide an exemption for citizens who have been approved by the Maryland State Police to carry a concealed weapon. However, after serious consideration, he believed that taking necessary steps to prevent individuals from bringing weapons into county office buildings outweighed his concerns over the lack of an exemption for concealed carry permits.

The County Executive remains a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and while CB 8-2015 is not without flaws, he believes it provides necessary protections to our dedicated employees and citizens.

Thank you again for providing your input. We hope that you will continue to share your thoughts on issues that are of importance to you.

Best regards,

David K. Lee

 

[gamer_jim]

However, after serious consideration, he believed that taking necessary steps to prevent individuals from bringing weapons into county office buildings outweighed his concerns over the lack of an exemption for concealed carry permits.

How would legislation prevent someone from doing anything illegal?

 

[pbharvey]

I received a response from David Lee Director of Constituent Services and Community Partnerships. Read Below:

Dear XXXXX

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with County Executive Allan Kittleman regarding his action on Council Bill 8-2015 (CB 8-2015). Keeping county employees and residents safe is one of his top priorities.

The County Executive had concerns with CB 8-2015, as approved by the County Council, in that the Bill does not provide an exemption for citizens who have been approved by the Maryland State Police to carry a concealed weapon. However, after serious consideration, he believed that taking necessary steps to prevent individuals from bringing weapons into county office buildings outweighed his concerns over the lack of an exemption for concealed carry permits.

The County Executive remains a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and while CB 8-2015 is not without flaws, he believes it provides necessary protections to our dedicated employees and citizens.

Thank you again for providing your input. We hope that you will continue to share your thoughts on issues that are of importance to you.

Best regards,

David K. Lee

I was in the Howard building yesterday. Nothing prevented me from bringing a gun into the building. There were two "guards" at the front desk like usual. One asked me to sign the book and one was reading the newspaper.
As far as I could tell, the county employees were just as safe or unsafe as before the bill was signed. Anyone with a brain should realize this.

 

[redeemed.man]

I was in the Howard building yesterday. Nothing prevented me from bringing a gun into the building. There were two "guards" at the front desk like usual. One asked me to sign the book and one was reading the newspaper.
As far as I could tell, the county employees were just as safe or unsafe as before the bill was signed. Anyone with a brain should realize this.

I thought the state had preemption anyway. How is this even legal?

 

[pbharvey]

I thought the state had preemption anyway. How is this even legal?

How is taxing the rain legal?

 

[markgrutz]

I was in the Howard building yesterday. Nothing prevented me from bringing a gun into the building. There were two "guards" at the front desk like usual. One asked me to sign the book and one was reading the newspaper.
As far as I could tell, the county employees were just as safe or unsafe as before the bill was signed. Anyone with a brain should realize this.

The only thing keeping that place safe is the fact that the police station is 100 yards away. The "security guards" that they hire are useless. I have never met one at any of the county buildings over the years that could stop a rogue butterfly.

Mark

 

[Cold Steel]

I worked for the NRA when it was in Washington, D.C. We had a range in the basement and we used to put our guns in a briefcase with ammo, get on the subway and bring them to work on 1600 Rhode Island Avenue. All legal, too. At lunch, we'd snarf down a sandwich and then, with our Ruger and S&W 41 autos or K17 and 63 revolvers, go down to pop off 50-100 rounds of .22LR (the only caliber that was legal). But it was a lot of fun. And no one on Metro knew that we had them. But even if they had, like I said, it was all legal.

Ever notice the relentless decline of cool things? Ever notice how you move into an area and within five years all your favorite restaurants are gone? Remember being able to go into the rock quarries and the canyons and find a good spot and shoot until dusk? Now you'd end up being arrested, booked and fined...not to mention having your guns confiscated. Now if you want to shoot guns outside, especially in Maryland, you have to shoot stop signs, then tear out of Dodge! I always loved those highway signs in the South and the West with bullet holes through them.

The anti-gunners in Maryland and elsewhere say that if you want to own firearms, you should know how to shoot them. Yet they carefully and methodically zone out any ranges they can and make laws so inconvenient that few can afford to shoot at existing shooting ranges. At the same time they call on the NRA and gun owners to compromise, a process that forces gun owners to give up their rights and, as for the gun grabbers, they don't get as many of your rights as they'd hoped! That's compromise. The other side never gives up anything they have, only what they'll settle for.

Ever notice the relentless decline of cool things?

.

 

[fabsroman]

I thought the state had preemption anyway. How is this even legal?

Md. CRIMINAL LAW Code Ann. § 4-209 (2014)

§ 4-209. Regulation of weapons and ammunition


(a) State preemption. -- Except as otherwise provided in this section, the State preempts the right of a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district to regulate the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of:

(1) a handgun, rifle, or shotgun; and

(2) ammunition for and components of a handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

(b) Exceptions. --

(1) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section:

(i) with respect to minors;

(ii) with respect to law enforcement officials of the subdivision; and

(iii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly.

(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the teaching of or training in firearms safety, or other educational or sporting use of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section.

(3) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the transportation of an item listed in subsection (a) of this section by a person who is carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the item, if:

(i) the handgun, rifle, or shotgun is unloaded;

(ii) the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the item is being transported in accordance with the court order; and

(iii) the person transports the item directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station.

(c) Preexisting local laws. -- To the extent that a local law does not create an inconsistency with this section or expand existing regulatory control, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may exercise its existing authority to amend any local law that existed on or before December 31, 1984.

(d) Discharge of firearms. --

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, in accordance with law, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the discharge of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the discharge of firearms at established ranges.


I think that should answer your question on how this is even legal for the county to do.

Personally, I think it is a pile of BS, but I guess this prevents somebody from legally open carrying an AR into a county building. Kittleman should have really requested that there be an exception for a person with a CCW that carries concealed within the county building. I am guessing that he could have gotten that exception if he pushed hard enough, but he did not. Too late after signing the piece of turd bill.

 

[brownspotz]

this is "hazzard county" to begin with. I hope that they see they are disarming their police force and citizens. when the bad guys show up and start shooting up the place, I hope the "firearms banned signs" are bullet proof. I hate this state more and more everyday.

 

[redeemed.man]

Md. CRIMINAL LAW Code Ann. § 4-209 (2014)

§ 4-209. Regulation of weapons and ammunition


(a) State preemption. -- Except as otherwise provided in this section, the State preempts the right of a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district to regulate the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of:

(1) a handgun, rifle, or shotgun; and

(2) ammunition for and components of a handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

(b) Exceptions. --

(1) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section:

(i) with respect to minors;

(ii) with respect to law enforcement officials of the subdivision; and

(iii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly.

(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the teaching of or training in firearms safety, or other educational or sporting use of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section.

(3) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the transportation of an item listed in subsection (a) of this section by a person who is carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the item, if:

(i) the handgun, rifle, or shotgun is unloaded;

(ii) the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the item is being transported in accordance with the court order; and

(iii) the person transports the item directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station.

(c) Preexisting local laws. -- To the extent that a local law does not create an inconsistency with this section or expand existing regulatory control, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may exercise its existing authority to amend any local law that existed on or before December 31, 1984.

(d) Discharge of firearms. --

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, in accordance with law, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the discharge of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the discharge of firearms at established ranges.


I think that should answer your question on how this is even legal for the county to do.

Personally, I think it is a pile of BS, but I guess this prevents somebody from legally open carrying an AR into a county building. Kittleman should have really requested that there be an exception for a person with a CCW that carries concealed within the county building. I am guessing that he could have gotten that exception if he pushed hard enough, but he did not. Too late after signing the piece of turd bill.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[6pack]

I received the same reply as TopTech. Very disappointing. All liberal speak. I've asked him to explain exactly how this bill protects County employees more than any existing law.

Mr. Sill,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with County Executive Allan Kittleman regarding his action on Council Bill 8-2015 (CB 8-2015). Keeping county employees and residents safe is one of his top priorities.

The County Executive shares your concerns with CB 8-2015, as approved by the County Council, in that the Bill does not provide an exemption for citizens with valid Wear and Carry permits. However, after serious consideration, he believed that taking necessary steps to prevent individuals from bringing weapons into county office buildings outweighed his concerns over the lack of an exemption for holders of carry permits.

The County Executive remains a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, and while CB 8-2015 is not without flaws, he believes it provides necessary protections to our dedicated employees and citizens.

Thank you again for providing your input. We hope that you will continue to share your thoughts on issues that are of importance to you.

Best regards,

David K. Lee
Director of Constituent Services and Community Partnerships
Office of Howard County Executive Allan Kittleman
410-313-2013
DKLee@howardcountymd.gov

 

[FFMike]

Moving to Florida can not happen soon enough! This state and county are out of control.

Taxes, repressing my rights.... I will take all of my earned income OUT of Md and Howard County and move it to Florida.

Been looking at Real Estate with the Mrs. and getting our ducks in a row. Within the next 18 mos we are GONE!

 

[TopTechAgent]

I asked a series of questions to elaborate on what exactly the County Executive was "weighing" and also how he thinks this will make us safer. Also asked specific questions about what exactly this is going to prevent from happening. We will see if any response comes. The good news is that I happen to run into Mr. Kittleman from time to time and therefore I will eventually get a moment to ask him directly.