PA to tax electric vehicles

[Ponder_MD]

While I do not own an EV....Isn't electric consumption already taxed? I have not looked at my B.G.E. bill lately, but I am sure it is there.

It is taxed but none of that tax goes to road use or maintenance. That's the problem.

Unpopular opinion: Every single person benefits from roads, even people that don't own cars. The fuel tax should be eliminated and an entirely new tax structure should be developed where everyone pays. I don't have all the answers and I can't tell you what that would look like. I loathe taxes but I simply cannot envision how roads would be maintained without them unless you want all roads to be privately owned and operated toll roads.

 

[alucard0822]

Coming soon. States are trying to make up for losses in the tax base.

How much is too much? Pennsylvania House negotiating road-use fee for electric vehicles

The Transportation Committee passed the bill 22-3 Monday, sending it to the full House, where it could be up for final passage Wednesday.

news.yahoo.com

Figure the proposed $290 per year would work out equal to about 32.5MPG for gas and 41MPG diesel for 15K miles per year in fuel tax. I'm sure a lot of gas/diesel folk would rather pay that being the state wants things to be fair. Over the road semis usually get about 7.5MPG, so 79CPG tax = it would only take 2753 miles to reach the same $290 tax with current PA fuel tax rates. I'm sure the trucking industry would love to pay that fixed road use tax vs fuel taxes.

 

[traveller]

I wouldn't be against this...something like you visit once per calendar year, at your leisure, that way an avg is established and as long as what you claim reasonably meets up with what is recorded...you are good

The politicians would screw this up though

All these cars are 100% digital. They are basically an app on wheels. Creating an e-signed locked pdf with mileage and kWh consumption that you upload to the eMVA website would be trivial. Of course, that would just be for those who have locked down all the privacy options. 99% of e-vehicle owners would just click on
[X] Enable mileage reporting to DMV for tax reporting
....when they do the first setup.

That way the car reports monthly and the tax gets paid right out of your vehicle app. If you can afford an electric car, $50 or $100 on your CC every month is a rounding error.

Now this would not account for out of state travel, but neither does me filling up in MD although I may drive a lot of miles on VA and WV highways.

 

[Doco Overboard]

PA.
They’ll figure out how to tax or make people pay for anything.
Where I lived in PA you had to nearly pay for someone to throw trash away for you.
Shame, it was a beautiful place but filled to the gunwhales with Rinos.

 

[traveller]

It is taxed but none of that tax goes to road use or maintenance. That's the problem.

Unpopular opinion: Every single person benefits from roads, even people that don't own cars. The fuel tax should be eliminated and an entirely new tax structure should be developed where everyone pays. I don't have all the answers and I can't tell you what that would look like. I loathe taxes but I simply cannot envision how roads would be maintained without them unless you want all roads to be privately owned and operated toll roads.

Axle weight and mileage are what determine road wear. Commercial motor vehicles in interstate commerce already pay for their road wear on a pro-rata basis.

If you ride to work on a bicycle or the metro, you shouldn't owe for roads used by someone driving a F250 or cyber-ugg as his commuter.

 

[chale127]

All these cars are 100% digital. They are basically an app on wheels. Creating an e-signed locked pdf with mileage and kWh consumption that you upload to the eMVA website would be trivial. Of course, that would just be for those who have locked down all the privacy options. 99% of e-vehicle owners would just click on
[X] Enable mileage reporting to DMV for tax reporting
....when they do the first setup.

That way the car reports monthly and the tax gets paid right out of your vehicle app. If you can afford an electric car, $50 or $100 on your CC every month is a rounding error.

Now this would not account for out of state travel, but neither does me filling up in MD although I may drive a lot of miles on VA and WV highways.

Agreed, heck, many cars have some form of GPS...it wouldn't be too hard to decipher in vs out of state if a home state is entered or even if it referenced "home" in many popular apps

 

[traveller]

Agreed, heck, many cars have some form of GPS...it wouldn't be too hard to decipher in vs out of state if a home state is entered or even if it referenced "home" in many popular apps

Well, that would get awfully close to real time surveillance. I would not be ok with that.
But sending the DMV a certified mileage report once a year is no different from recording mileage during an inspection.

 

[alucard0822]

It is taxed but none of that tax goes to road use or maintenance. That's the problem.

Unpopular opinion: Every single person benefits from roads, even people that don't own cars. The fuel tax should be eliminated and an entirely new tax structure should be developed where everyone pays. I don't have all the answers and I can't tell you what that would look like. I loathe taxes but I simply cannot envision how roads would be maintained without them unless you want all roads to be privately owned and operated toll roads.

agreed, well sort of. IMO the more obscure, specialized and inventive the tax scheme, the more it targets a small group of people, and the more complicated it gets to collect and enforce. Mileage tax is a big F-no, .gov GPS tracking, annual "mileage reporting inspections", if mileage entered by someone somewhere doesn't match, want to get audited? It's just a scam to get at least 51% of people to support some new BS tax on less than 49% of someone else. How about putting several potential budget cuts or tax repeals to a voter referendum and see if you can get a majority of voters to support, millions to require annual inspections? millions for refurbishing the offices of legislators? $345 million to fund Penn state? should be $0 after the college president essentially condoned students calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.

IMO part of the reason we are in the bloated burocratic mess we are in is because most of us have no idea of how much tax we actually pay, and people tend to support paying "a fair share" provided it is someone else paying it. In 2022, PA's budget was 119.1 Billion with 44.9 billion in general fund collections(many other taxes and fees go to other funds, some spending is from federal or out of state sources), population estimates are just about 13 million residents. So they are collecting an average of $3453 from every single man, woman and child in PA for the general fund alone. People's willingness to support BS spending would probably change dramatically if everyone had to go to the bank, pull that out in cash once a year, walk into a government office, and hand it over. Funny thing is the savings from administering and running the thousands of existing revenue programs would likely be several billion dollars if this is how taxes were paid.

 

[Ponder_MD]

If you ride to work on a bicycle or the metro, you shouldn't owe for roads used by someone driving a F250 or cyber-ugg as his commuter.

This is where I differ. If you consume products, if you ride in an ambulance, if you rely on the fire dept. to respond to your residence for a fire, you benefit from roads and should contribute something. There are no free rides.

 

[offthepaper]

EV's have dodged the road use tax long enough. This won't solve the entire problem but I don't see what's so difficult about adding a "per Kwh" tax at public charging stations just as you add a "per gallon" tax at petro pumps.

Exactly.

 

[dist1646]

A mileage based tax would disproportionately affect those that build roads and bridges. They have to travel to the job sites all over the place and unlike those that work in a fixed location, they can not live in a place that would be close to the jobs.

 

[mpollan1]

EV's have dodged the road use tax long enough. This won't solve the entire problem but I don't see what's so difficult about adding a "per Kwh" tax at public charging stations just as you add a "per gallon" tax at petro pumps.

And they are exempt from HOV lane restrictions. So yeah, let a "zero emission" vehicle sail right along and let the planet defiling, carbon producing killer of everything sit idling in traffic.

 

[spoon059]

If they abolished the fuel tax and replaced it with a mileage based use tax I could be OK with it.

But I'm NEVER OK with a new tax.

Not gonna happen. You know they will just add the tax to the existing fuel taxes...

 

[spoon059]

I only have one beef with the mileage use tax- it violates the privacy of the citizen by letting the gov't monitor where they drive, or at least, their mileage.

Privilege, not a right my friend. They already monitor it through a variety of methods.

 

[spoon059]

While I do not own an EV....Isn't electric consumption already taxed? I have not looked at my B.G.E. bill lately, but I am sure it is there.

That doesn't pay towards road fees and infrastructure. That is utility tax...

 

[traveller]

This is where I differ. If you consume products, if you ride in an ambulance, if you rely on the fire dept. to respond to your residence for a fire, you benefit from roads and should contribute something. There are no free rides.

You already do through general taxation. The fuel tax trust fund is chronically underfunded and supplemented by general tax revenue.

If you purchase goods transported by a CMV, the operator paid fuel tax for his use of the road. Use more goods --> pay more indirect tax .

 

[TheOriginalMexicanBob]

A mileage based tax would disproportionately affect those that build roads and bridges. They have to travel to the job sites all over the place and unlike those that work in a fixed location, they can not live in a place that would be close to the jobs.

Like any sales tax...it would disproportionally affect the poor, children, minorities and women. Or so the Washington Post would claim.

 

[Alutacon]

The government can never do with less...it always wants more...but you can do with less.

Now that's some shit we agree on

 

[RFBfromDE]

It's only "fair and equitable" considering the owners pay no gasoline taxes earmarked for highway repairs and expansion. How much is enough is an open question...to the politicians there is no "enough"...it's always gotta be more.

Now that's some shit we agree on

You and Johnny Rocco!

 

[dist1646]

Like any sales tax...it would disproportionally affect the poor, children, minorities and women. Or so the Washington Post would claim.

The percentage on that kind of tax would be the same for everyone, not so with a mileage tax.