Bertfish
Throw bread on me
Do the police employed by this asshats actually believe they're doing good?
Again: they don't need to make you confess when they already have evidence. They have the sales records (and probably shipping records) of you buying and receiving what they have determined to be an illegal suppressor. They know what you bought. They could charge you tomorrow if they wanted to. The deference that the judiciary gives to the BATFE makes it highly unlikely you are going to prevail in a definition fight - as Sig discovered. Not impossible, but not likely.Well...the thing they know and the thing they can prove are not necessarily the same thing. They say it's an "illegal suppressor." If I accept their premise I pretty much shutdown a potential defense. I have heard stories of police (I suppose not the AFT specifically), essentially tricking folks into confessing to crimes.
It's your money and freedom. Go for it.And as a matter of principle, why make their lives easy? If people role over every time there is a letter sent out, that gives them unlimited, unlegislated, and probably illegitimate power.
Of course losing the fight has some serious consequences. But, damn it, somebody has to stand up for something.
Again: they don't need to make you confess when they already have evidence. They have the sales records (and probably shipping records) of you buying and receiving what they have determined to be an illegal suppressor. They know what you bought. They could charge you tomorrow if they wanted to. The deference that the judiciary gives to the BATFE makes it highly unlikely you are going to prevail in a definition fight - as Sig discovered. Not impossible, but not likely.
It's your money and freedom. Go for it.
Problem is that if he bought different parts (not a complete kit) then that is in no way a suppressor.
The ATF plays fast and loose with interpretations all the time, they really need to be reigned in or better yet disbanded altogether.
I know the odds of that are slim.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The letter doesn't actually say what the problem parts were. So this may not be limited to kits.Problem is that if he bought different parts (not a complete kit) then that is in no way a suppressor.
They already have records of you being sent an "illegal suppressor". Turning in the thing they know you bought isn't going to make the situation worse. This is not the first time the BATFE has had people turn in stuff like accidental MGs, and to my knowledge, voluntary compliance has not been met with prosecution (for obvious reasons).
If Diversified Machine shipped him something that the ATF already considered a suppressor, it does not matter if he had his stamp. You cannot use a form 1 to order in a complete SBR, for example; it is permission to MANUFACTURE, not to transfer. If I ship you a Colt 6933 with no form 4, the ATF is going to be busting you and me for it even if you had a form 1 to build an SBR.Actually, if we're talking about the OP, he bought the 'kit' after receiving his stamp. As far as I can see(and IANAL), the OP should not have a worry. Diversified Machine, not so much.
Again: they don't need to make you confess when they already have evidence. They have the sales records (and probably shipping records) of you buying and receiving what they have determined to be an illegal suppressor. They know what you bought. They could charge you tomorrow if they wanted to. The deference that the judiciary gives to the BATFE makes it highly unlikely you are going to prevail in a definition fight - as Sig discovered. Not impossible, but not likely.
It's your money and freedom. Go for it.
If Diversified Machine shipped him something that the ATF already considered a suppressor, it does not matter if he had his stamp. You cannot use a form 1 to order in a complete SBR, for example; it is permission to MANUFACTURE, not to transfer. If I ship you a Colt 6933 with no form 4, the ATF is going to be busting you and me for it even if you had a form 1 to build an SBR.
The "lol **** the ATF crowd" really does not seem to understand the nuances of the law. I'd strongly advise consulting a lawyer before blowing this off.
You mean to tell me ATF just blasted out a bunch of letters without checking to see if the recipients had already registered these items?? It is not difficult to get a database query that shows you all of the items in a list not in your database meeting certain criteria. This is incompetence writ large.
The answer is yes. If you are dumb and illegally buy an NFA item by accident, you've still committed a crime. Note that the ATF is providing a mechanism for such people to presumably rectify that mistake without prosection. If you guys want to concoct scenarios where this is some kind of elaborate self incrimination sting operation, that's cool, but if they wanted to get you, they'd be kicking down your door and shooting your dog based on the sales data they seized, not sending letters.Ah - I see - so the law states the OP should have known better and is subject to prosecution?
Yeah ... because the Feds *never* have shown up at someone's door on the basis of online purchasing behavior. (Interestingly ... the Homeland Security guys in this video are out of Detroit, too. Coincidence?)If you guys want to concoct scenarios where this is some kind of elaborate self incrimination sting operation, that's cool, but if they wanted to get you, they'd be kicking down your door and shooting your dog based on the sales data they seized, not sending letters.
You mean to tell me ATF just blasted out a bunch of letters without checking to see if the recipients had already registered these items?? It is not difficult to get a database query that shows you all of the items in a list not in your database meeting certain criteria. This is incompetence writ large.
(It's only a matter of time before the other shoe drops with braces, incidentally. Expect to see a bunch determined as stocks outright.)
Think of the people who bought complete pistols with one of those on it, though. That would be the risk case.A little different in this case since buying a pistol brace is not illegal. In this case, they will be forcing gun owners to take the brace off just leaving the pistol tube, not confiscating property, yes? Even so, not good and point well taken.