WBAL - State Police Ask For Patience In Gun Application Bottleneck

[Pirate]

On non MD regulated long guns we call NICS and we get the number first thing before they even tell us the status of the check. So if it is delayed the 3 day wait kicks in. We have a NICS number on the form though.

 

[2AHokie]

On non MD regulated long guns we call NICS and we get the number first thing before they even tell us the status of the check. So if it is delayed the 3 day wait kicks in. We have a NICS number on the form though.

On regulated firearms, does MD have anything that could qualify as a "state transaction number"?

I've looked for a definition in US law (didn't find one) and the internet only shows the term in ATF and FBI FAQs but doesn't really state what it is other than the vague suggestion that states can choose to provide one, or not.

Would the application tracking # mentioned in 77R-3 qualify (http://icac.mdsp.org/downloads/77R-3.pdf)? It says it comes from 77R-2 but of course that form isn't online and I couldn't cite it from memory.

Does anyone know if it has ever been tried or suggested in the past?

 

[Tashtego]

Thank you for the further information relayed today. I regret Inwas unable to participate.

In the other thread where I asked about this,
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=111629
my reference to the source documents cited there concluded that Brady, its regulations, the FBI and ATF website guidance documents, and form 4473, suggest that the Brady 3-day wait can occur even if no NTN is given (the form says "if provided"). But the POC is, according to the regs, supposed to issue an initial response once the FFL submits an app, that response, if it isn't proceed, denied, or cancelled, is "delayed." POC delay can be for any reason, even without an NTN, such as here where the delay is because they have chosen not to start the NICS check.

Several FFLs have said, and I have no reason to doubt them, that the NTN is being required before the 3-day period starts, and before an initial response is given, and that this requirement is not unspoken but is in writing. It seems to me, if we could identify the precise locality of this requirement, we could probably show that is a violation of Brady itself and it's implementing regulation, wherein they say as I cited in the other thread that the POC must issue an initial response, that an NTN might not be provided, and that if the POC won't issue that "delayed" response then the Feds will deem it a "proceed" after the 3-day period.

So I'm wondering if someone can help identify where the requirement is specified. Thanks!

 

[4095fanatic]

Can we get a summary of some of these posts posted and stickied. Maybe even added to the recommended read section for new members. I see a lot of questions from new members regarding this topic.

 

[newq]

Kinda odd , all this fuss but if you go to MSP barracks and theh don't give you an answer in 7 days they tell you to proceeed with the sale....


hopefully they do checks on themselves and remove their right to administer and regulate ffl transfers.

 

[Tashtego]

On non MD regulated long guns we call NICS and we get the number first thing before they even tell us the status of the check. So if it is delayed the 3 day wait kicks in. We have a NICS number on the form though.

And this is the way the regulations say things are supposed to work: when you call to request a check, you get an initial response right away: proceed, denied, cancelled or delayed. You also get the NTN because NICS actually runs the check when you call for those guns. But the regulations at 28 CFR Part 25 say that the NTN is not what triggers the three day clock: the inquiry and its same-day "initial response" are. Form 4473 likewise explicitly encompasses circumstances where there is no NTN given, and where no response was ultimately given by the POC. But apparently, for Md regulated guns the POC is not fulfilling its job requirement of issuing an initial response, and maybe, depending on what the FFLs say is really going on, the NICS is not doing its job to deem the POC's inaction as starting the clock. One way or another, it seems to me, the Feds are violating their own binding rules.

The Brady statute contains a three-day clock to stop the government from using the Act to delay applications indefinitely, and that clock would be completely meaningless if the government could refuse to hit the start button on the clock. The Feds know this would violate the statute, so they wrote regulations that require the clock to start the day of the inquiry, by requiring either the Feds or their POC to issue an initial response, and by deeming the failure to do so in three days as the equivalent of a "proceed".

The question here seems to be: can the refusal by MSP and/or the Feds to follow these regulations be documented, by pointing spefically to where and when they are telling FFLs that they must not release an item, even after the three days, if they dont yet have an NTN. That is the smoking gun which can be shown to be a government violation of Brady.

 

[Jimbuck]

I just called on one I am waiting on, submitted Feb 22. Was told by the trooper to expect another month to six weeks before being able to pick up my gun. That will be aobut 10 weeks. Unsat.

 

[Klunatic]

This may have been asked before but I can't find a reference. I just applied for a designated collector status. If you get the DC status how does this effect the background check wait if at all? I know you have to wait the "7 days" normally, will any FFL's still release a firearm to a DC on the 8th day?

 

[daNattyFatty]

This may have been asked before but I can't find a reference. I just applied for a designated collector status. If you get the DC status how does this effect the background check wait if at all? I know you have to wait the "7 days" normally, will any FFL's still release a firearm to a DC on the 8th day?

It doesn't effect the wait for a background check, just the number of regulated firearms that you can purchase.

 

[Haides]

I just called on one I am waiting on, submitted Feb 22. Was told by the trooper to expect another month to six weeks before being able to pick up my gun. That will be aobut 10 weeks. Unsat.

Really? I see some getting their apps back from as late as 2/9 already in other threads.

 

[fabsroman]

Really? I see some getting their apps back from as late as 2/9 already in other threads.

Yeah, I really am hoping that we are not talking about another 6 weeks here because I submitted mine on February 26. This stuff is just insane.

 

[jtb81100]

I just called on one I am waiting on, submitted Feb 22. Was told by the trooper to expect another month to six weeks before being able to pick up my gun. That will be aobut 10 weeks. Unsat.

Started my wait the same day. Not planning on calling the store for another week.

 

[Elliotte]

That's my next Karma. I'll be down on Saturday for my lower. You know you can release it on the 8th day......

And on the 8th day the LORD firearms dealer release the regulated firearm.

 

[rseymorejr]

Now that we are all organized and motivated, we need to begin to think about next year in Annapolis. Maybe we should go on the offensive immediately. Lobby for a bill to kill this redundant BS called the 7-day wait. Maryland should participate fully in the NICS system and when the dealer calls and gets a rom NICS, youtake your gun and go about your business.

Their 7-day "cooling off" period has turned into a 45 day "Pissing off" period.

 

[Right2Carry]

I just called on one I am waiting on, submitted Feb 22. Was told by the trooper to expect another month to six weeks before being able to pick up my gun. That will be aobut 10 weeks. Unsat.

I think the trooper is somewhat exaggerating and perhaps a little nerving having to sit and process all apps. OR Perhaps the call interrupted him and pissed him off, so he may have pulled your app and placed it on the bottom of the pile. Now 10 weeks instead of 2-3 weeks.

To all - STOP calling and let them work!

 

[Zyvo]

Started my wait the same day. Not planning on calling the store for another week.

Same here. No sense in pestering them if its still weeks away.

 

[Haides]

Yes, please don't call unless you've been waiting 45+ days yet. Otherwise, let them do their thing.

 

[Ranger Tom]

30 days was today, I called the gun store, he informed me that the shop had just received about 10 from early February. Is the MSP sitting on the paperwork and releasing it weekly, or are they contacting the dealers daily?

 

[dfens42]

It's already been widely reported that the MSP is bundling apps together for certain dealers and that if one in the bunch is delayed, they hold the whole bundle.

 

[fleaman64]

I have no sympathy for these government employees. It's a stupid "law" to begin with.

Like someone else said already, a right delayed is a right denied.