Wideners... AK Receiver blanks already pressed

[r3t1awr3yd]

http://wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000564

Soooooo, does this take the whole "need a press" out of the equation for building one? If so, I think I need to jump on building my first AK.

 

[HappyCamper]

Anyone know what kits are compatible with it? Ad says Polish.. any others?

 

[awptickes]

It means you don't need a jig or press, but you'll need to drill all of the holes yourself.

Not an easy task unless you have a drill press and an x/y vise.

 

[rob-cubed]

There is no difference between Polish receivers and those of any other AKM besides country of origin. You can use just about any AKM kit on this receiver.

But you will still need a spot welder and rails, the ability to drill nice clean axis pin holes, heat treat, etc. It does save having to buy a bending jig but that's about it.

 

[leroygibbs]

There is no difference between Polish receivers and those of any other AKM besides country of origin. You can use just about any AKM kit on this receiver.

But you will still need a spot welder and rails, the ability to drill nice clean axis pin holes, heat treat, etc. It does save having to buy a bending jig but that's about it.

And the rivet holes... The selector hole could be a bear, but it's interesting. Now, does anyone sell rails alone anymore? Also, it doesn't say if it's an AKM or ak-74. While this is very, very un-scientific, it looks (from the picture with my crappy eyes) it's a AKM, 7.62x39 magwell.

 

[rob-cubed]

These do make a nice alternative to flats, the extra Y and I stamps are cool.

AK-Builder does offer rails:
http://ak-builder.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29851

and you'd also need a center support. And a shop press. And park/paint. Still a lot of work to finish, there really isn't a shortcut to building an AK.

 

[aquaman]

when you can find saigas for 300-350 these days there is no point to building them yourself. That and the whole barrel ban thing really put a end to home builds worth doing. OP you missed the boat, it was good from 04-early 08

 

[jpk1md]

when you can find saigas for 300-350 these days there is no point to building them yourself. That and the whole barrel ban thing really put a end to home builds worth doing. OP you missed the boat, it was good from 04-early 08

barrel ban?

ak barrels are avail and cheap

 

[straightsilver3]

barrel ban?

ak barrels are avail and cheap

He's talking about the com bloc barrels you know the good one's ATF banned the importation of these barrels Yes you can get US AK barrels cheap but most AK purists don't want them and I would say thanks to the century keyhole issue no one really wants them I myself had a century Tantal with a US barrel with no issues but the barrel wasn't chrome lined

 

[DarthZed]

It doesn't say whether they are heat treated or not. I would guess not, given the description. And the bolt carrier rails still need to be welded. (shrug) Pay the extra $60-70 and get a Nodak Spud. Its a known quantity, and your time and effort are easily worth the price difference. These would only be useful to someone who was doing a test build for practice, because they were afraid they'd screw up a good receiver. IMO

 

[Scott7891]

when you can find saigas for 300-350 these days there is no point to building them yourself. That and the whole barrel ban thing really put a end to home builds worth doing. OP you missed the boat, it was good from 04-early 08

+1 quoted for truth.

barrel ban?

ak barrels are avail and cheap

Combloc originals are now frozen in supply. The only ones available now on the primary market that were hoarded by distributors and hidden away until recently so as to score in on better profits are Romanian barrels. They are only going to go up in value and they will disappear unless someone else is waiting for the supply to dry up again and then all of a sudden say "look what we stumbled on" and charge way more than what they were going for but that is the market.

He's talking about the com bloc barrels you know the good one's ATF banned the importation of these barrels Yes you can get US AK barrels cheap but most AK purists don't want them and I would say thanks to the century keyhole issue no one really wants them I myself had a century Tantal with a US barrel with no issues but the barrel wasn't chrome lined

I am an AK purist but it has nothing to do with the fact they are not from overseas. U.S. barrels are lacking in serious quality especially in the longevity and durability department. They use the button-rifling process which means the metal is inferior, rifling grooves not as precise, the ones that are chrome lined are not evenly applied through the barrel and are known for premature flaking, some will even build them in the wrong caliber (the tantal fiasco involved 5.56 barrels with 5.45 ammo!!!). Also the vast, vast majority of the cheap imported ammo is steel cased, bimetallic-tipped ammo that will not only cause the rifling to wear away faster with the lack of chrome-lining but will erode the chamber faster since chrome acts as a sort of lubricant for extraction. That is the reason why foreign arsenals to this day HFCL their barrels. The exception is Serbia who hammer forged their barrels but issued brass cases with copper bullets so chrome-lining was not necessary.

They are honestly only good as range plinkers and light HD but for prolonged shooting, investment value, and long-term SHTF purposes factory barrels will run circles around them. At 5000 rounds U.S. barrels are on their last legs while factory ones are just getting started.

Plus the known builders of them do not inspire much confidence.
-green mountain (black powder barrels)
-rim country manufacturing (.22 barrel builders)
-mossberg (shotguns)

We COULD make hammer forged chrome lined barrels as good as the originals but there is no profit in them with the large influx of saiga and wasr's coming in at relatively cheap prices plus the ignorance of the AK platform to the general shooting public especially when it comes to their barrels where the mindset is, "it just an AK I don't want to spend that much for them because they are cheap POS's not 1 MOA or less accurate" means builders are going to try to cut as many corners as possible to keep the costs down to "what AK's should cost" levels so we won't see any domestic builds any time soon if not ever with factory equivalent barrels.

 

[chris12138]

That's some good posting Scott

 

[Scott7891]

That's some good posting Scott

Thank you.

I don't want to BS anyone especially people who are getting AK's to know what they are getting themselves into.

Not all AK's are the same contrary to popular belief.

To the OP if you want a good domestic receiver I would stick with either Nodak Spud or Elk River Tool & Die they make the best ones.

 

[r3t1awr3yd]

Thank you.

I don't want to BS anyone especially people who are getting AK's to know what they are getting themselves into.

Not all AK's are the same contrary to popular belief.

To the OP if you want a good domestic receiver I would stick with either Nodak Spud or Elk River Tool & Die they make the best ones.

Thank you sir (and for your response above).

 

[Scott7891]

Thank you sir (and for your response above).

No problem.

If you are going for a 7.62x39 build stick with Romanian factory barrels you will not be disappointed.

APEX Gun Parts and some other sites I forgot off the top of my head sell them.
https://www.apexgunparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/57/products_id/1481

 

[Scott7891]

If this is indeed a Polish-built not "Polish style" receiver blank then this would be a cool platform to do a build on.

 

[DarthZed]

I understand where Scott is coming from in his above post (many AK guys insist on Hammer Forged), but if I could play devil's advocate for a minute.

American barrels got a bad rap from the century debacle. And the fact that a crappy manufacturer choose to use a 5.56 barrel on a 5.45 round should in no way paint all American barrels as sub-par. Any member of FAL Files (or ARF)has read about FALs (and ARs) with 15-25k rounds through them, many using American barrels; so I have to respectfully disagree with his assertion that "At 5000 rounds U.S. barrels are on their last legs while factory ones are just getting started". Also, I've never read anything about the bi-metallic tips that are on some rounds wearing the barrel more. I don't see how that could ever be a factor, since the tip never come in contact with the barrels bore (being on the tip of the bullet). Now it's true that most American barrels are not Hammer Forged (HF), however I tend to disagree with those who think that ONLY a HF barrel is good enough to install on a rifle. There are definitely advantages to a Hammer Forged barrel, whether they are significant enough to warrant the hype is questionable. For everyone who is unfamiliar with the process:

It was developed in Germany in WWII. The process takes barrel blanks and slides the cylinder over a mandrel (a reverse image of the barrel bore). Large high-pressure hammers then pound the blank (at around 1000 times a minute) till it collapses around the mandrel. This forms the barrel's bore including rifling/lands. The barrel blank starts off at a softer Rockwell Hardness rating than used in conventional barrel blanks; however the HF process work-hardens the barrel to similar levels (Normally 25-30ish). Advantages of this system are that is relatively easy to create tapered barrels, and closely monitor interior bore characteristics by varying the speed/power/pattern of the hammer strikes. This process also creates a relatively smooth bore surface, and gives a lap like finish without performing the lapping process. HF is also VERY efficient. You can create a barrel in 3-4 minutes (which is the main reason the Germans started using the process).

Disadvantages are that the equipment is insanely expensive (millions to tens of millions of dollars). Due to the expense there are (IIRC) only 5-10 manufacturers in the US. The process also produces induced stresses in the barrels, and most manufacturers do not stress-relieve the barrels; since the process is much more involved and time consuming for HF barrels. This (supposedly) affects accuracy and consistency as the barrel heats up. (shrug) I'm no expert, only know what I've read over the years. But from what I understand, HF is nice to have, but you aren't really going to notice the difference unless you shoot many, many thousands of rounds, or do a lot of full-auto firing. So I wouldn't consider the presence, or absence of a HF barrel to be a deal breaker. 99% of the people would never notice or care.

 

[hairba111]

But you will still need a spot welder and rails, the ability to drill nice clean axis pin holes, heat treat, etc. It does save having to buy a bending jig but that's about it.

You'll need METRIC drill bits also, not commonly sold individually. You'll have to buy a full set, $$$$.

 

[Scott7891]

Any member of FAL Files (or ARF)has read about FALs (and ARs) with 15-25k rounds through them, many using American barrels; so I have to respectfully disagree with his assertion that "At 5000 rounds U.S. barrels are on their last legs while factory ones are just getting started".

You are comparing apples to oranges. Many AR manufacturers already use hammer forging in their barrels especially since the infrastructure and know-how for AR's has been around for years. It is after all America's rifle. Also the AR rifles that are not hammer forged are either low quality variants or high precision target rigs. In those instances one is not putting high volumes of fire down range like an AK was designed to do. Same with the FAL. Different tools for different roles. Durability is where the AK shines. U.S. barrels until they are factory equivalents will not last the lifetime over factory barrels especially in a massive SHTF situation if it were to occur.

Also, I've never read anything about the bi-metallic tips that are on some rounds wearing the barrel more. I don't see how that could ever be a factor, since the tip never come in contact with the barrels bore (being on the tip of the bullet).

A) throat erosion, chrome-lining helps to slow down the process when loading rounds continuously
B) if it is not a big deal then why did the Serbs and Iraqis the only AK builders that issue lead-tipped copper ammo with their hammer forged-only barrels while the rest of the AK world doesn't. There is a reason for it and it wasn't to be different.

Now it's true that most American barrels are not Hammer Forged (HF), however I tend to disagree with those who think that ONLY a HF barrel is good enough to install on a rifle. There are definitely advantages to a Hammer Forged barrel, whether they are significant enough to warrant the hype is questionable. For everyone who is unfamiliar with the process

I never said that hammer forging was the "only" suitable barrel to go on a rifle. Again like I stated above the right tool for the right job. AK's were designed to shoot many rounds downrange at once plus survive in a long term SHTF scenario thus with that being their design role it would be natural to stick with what they were designed to be from the get-go.

True target rigs have a different MO than say bump-firing or rapid firing as many rounds as you can downrange at once.

 

[erwos]

Also the AR rifles that are not hammer forged are either low quality variants or high precision target rigs.

Ah, yes, like those Colt rifles that don't use CHF barrels. Everyone knows those are low quality variants! And LMT... man, we all know how they suck.

It's completely untrue to claim that only low quality and high precision target AR-15s don't have CHF barrels. IIRC, 5k rounds is when accuracy starts degrading in a non-CHF AR-15 barrel. It doesn't mean your barrel is shot out and unusable. It doesn't even mean that your gun is inaccurate in a way you'd notice - just less accurate in some, probably small, fashion.

It would be interesting to see someone actually do a study with a high-quality non-CHF AR barrel and a CHF AK barrel and see what really happens under varying firing schemes. What we have now is a lot of internet lore, not so much science. And given how some folks in the firearms enthusiast community tend to dramatically overhype an otherwise good thing, I think it would be a good thing to formally test.

And, as always, let me point out that no one here is going to install that third pin (and we pay for our own ammo!), so what happens to a gun's barrel does under long term sustained full auto is basically academic for civilians. In theory, CHF is better, I do not dispute it. In practice for even your average enthusiast (who, according to a recent survey, makes it out to the range maybe once a month), it won't matter much, if at all.