AGC

[Sundazes]

The primary reason why AGC must strive to be the steward of shooters and the shooting sports in Central Maryland. May it never lose sight of that prize.

This facility would NEVER be allowed to open in today's goddamn awful liberally run state. Should it ever close, for whatever reason? It is forever gone, never to be replaced.

This is exactly why the finances to be transparent.

 

[Stoveman]

For all the action shooting types. If it wasn't for the paper punchers as you guys like to call them, the AGC would not even exist. Those are the guys that worked to keep the range operational since 1947. Also, remember that when you wanted to bring action style shooting to the AGC, it was the paper punching highpower shooters that supported it. Now, I hear comments like, they action types want to run the highpower shooters off! What I think about that can not be posted on the forum!

I don't know who you are hearing those comments from but rest assured that at the action shooting matches we don't talk about running anyone off. I'm certain everyone is grateful for the founding and support of the AGC through the years but at the same time we're not driving up in our Studebakers anymore. Times and tastes change.

While I think that there should always be a place and a time for those that want to put holes in paper the future (actually more like the now and going forward), like it or not, is action shooting.

 

[dist1646]

Come on, give it a go. If you can say there is "an agenda," you can knock out a couple of sentences summarizing it. Is it, "Secretly setting up Maryland gun owners to get their money and use it to support anti-2A politicians?" Is it, "Secretly preparing to force all member clubs into an Essential Oils Multi-Level Marketing pyramid scheme?" Is it, "Laying the ground work for getting all members present for a big event, and then fencing them in, creating a re-education camp?"

If you can't broadly describe "the agenda," then it doesn't exist.

The agenda I am referring to involved huge expenditures for certain groups. It also involves control and manipulation of every aspect of the AGC by certain individuals or an individual. All you have to ask yourself is. why did they change the rules regarding the way AGC meetings are conducted and why does any discussion need to be pre-scrutinized. The answers to those two questions should lead you to the rest.

 

[dist1646]

I don't know who you are hearing those comments from but rest assured that at the action shooting matches we don't talk about running anyone off. I'm certain everyone is grateful for the founding and support of the AGC through the years but at the same time we're not driving up in our Studebakers anymore. Times and tastes change.

While I think that there should always be a place and a time for those that want to put holes in paper the future (actually more like the now and going forward), like it or not, is action shooting.

I could care less about action shooting, as long as it is done safely. I support the shooting sports, period. I also supported full auto being allowed at AGC back when I was on the board, as long as it was done safely. Ask yourself, why are incidents being hushed up. They should be looked at and any safety issues addressed, not the "well, it's the privileged group so, it doesn't matter" attitude that I have witnessed. Maybe you should try driving an old classic car sometime, you might find it not only enjoyable but, a learning experience as well. There is a reason the classics have stood the test of time. The me, now, instant gratification absorbed crowd may find some things that last. Then again, the test of time is the true tell.

 

[Occam]

The agenda I am referring to involved huge expenditures for certain groups. It also involves control and manipulation of every aspect of the AGC by certain individuals or an individual. All you have to ask yourself is. why did they change the rules regarding the way AGC meetings are conducted and why does any discussion need to be pre-scrutinized. The answers to those two questions should lead you to the rest.

Sounds to me like a large, sprawling, multi-interest organization can't possibly get stuff done as if it's a PTA meeting and benefits from making meetings about something, instead of a free for all. I could be wrong. But more to the point, you sound like just the guy to persuasively make your case to members and taking over control of the organization yourself. Burn some shoe leather, write millions emails, show up at every meeting and event and convince everyone that your perspective is the right way for things to be seen and acted on and prioritized from the leadership level. If you make sense and do the work, then YOU can be the one making those calls, and you will be a much, much happier person, right?

 

[Kilroy3006]

I think it would be better and perhaps more enlightening if you ask your Club trustee for the info. (presuming you belong to an AGC member club). If your trustee does not have it, ask the trustee to request it under the AGC bylaws.

IV.1.2. Delegated Authority

IV.1.2.1. All matters not specifically reserved to the Trustees in IV.1.1 above, shall be within the ordinary decision-making authority of members of the Executive Board, acting individually or collectively according to rules and procedures that the Trustees shall from time to time establish.

Section IV.2 – Reporting Duties of Officers

IV.2.1. It shall be the duty of the Officers of the Association to provide timely reports to the Trustees concerning actions taken under IV.1.2 above, and to provide timely response to questions or concerns raised by any Trustee.

If your trustee refuses, that will tell you something. Get a new trustee or join another club. Or, attend a trustee meeting in person and ask.

BTW, a full year report should exist but I have not seen it. Perhaps someone else on this string has.

 

[RRomig]

While there will probably always be a “ flavor of the month” shooting sport hopefully all disciplines of shooting will survive the test of time. Anyone that’s shot long enough has been through many of them. I know very good action shooters that have moved on to long range and vice versa. If you’ve only shot one discipline and think it’s the be all and end all then your stuck on vanilla and are missing out.

 

[Occam]

While there will probably always be a “ flavor of the month” shooting sport hopefully all disciplines of shooting will survive the test of time. Anyone that’s shot long enough has been through many of them. I know very good action shooters that have moved on to long range and vice versa. If you’ve only shot one discipline and think it’s the be all and end all then your stuck on vanilla and are missing out.

This is certainly true, but I think it’s a bit of a red herring. Is there really some group of people in a given discipline that has gathered together to truly try to “run off” another? That sounds pretty apocryphal to me.

 

[erwos]

This is certainly true, but I think it’s a bit of a red herring. Is there really some group of people in a given discipline that has gathered together to truly try to “run off” another? That sounds pretty apocryphal to me.

Probably someone getting upset that action shooting or RD reserved the 200yd bay for multigun? The premise of the AS community banding together to run off high power or metallic silhouette seems hilarious given that I don't even know anyone over there who shoots those sports, nor am I trying to compete for their resources. Honestly, I never even believed there was actual resistance towards the total no-brainer of building the bays, but this thread has shown me the truth, I suppose. The idea that AGC should just go on living like shooting hasn't advanced since 1965 is utterly bizarre to me.

What I do know is that action shooting is attracting 60+ paying people a weekend (never mind practice Thursdays), and they tend to be the younger crowd, with a pretty respectable smattering of women and minorities to boot. They are the people we need to attract to the shooting sports if we want to preserve our rights. I'm still utterly skeptical that the bays are losing money on an operating basis (how?), but if event fees need to be hiked to go cash neutral or positive, so be it.

 

[DC-W]

There’s a lot of hostility being stirred up in an online thread with zero meaning to anyone of importance at the AGC and probably even less to most paying badge holders. There are trustees and they meet. There is leadership for them and the AGC itself reachable through the AGC website.

Those are who to express legitimate grievances and helpful suggestions to.

 

[rseymorejr]

Full disclosure, I'm not a range badge holder at the AGC anymore. When I was I was a trustee for my club for a while and I went to the trustee's meetings/ 3 ring circuses. Only the Charter clubs can vote on anything so in reality there are 30 votes, 2 per club. Generally a club's trustees will vote together, but not always. I don't think there is actually a "hidden agenda" but once a relatively small number of people decide they want to do something it gets rammed through. I have been at meetings where opposing views and comments got shouted down.
I have been to meetings where the treasurer's report was severly lacking in content and others where it would take an IRS auditor to figure out what was being presented. We had a rental house that sat vacant for well over a year, a storage building that ended up costing 50% more than first anticipated and $100K from lead reclaimation that should have been earmarked for capital projects or to go toward the mortgage that was just put in the general fund to be spent. It reminded me a lot of a government operation. Spend a bunch of money and more money will just come funneling in. I understand the expenses keep going up and if they want to have good RSO's they have to pay them well. I think those in charge are all doing a good job, in volunteer positions. The AGC really is a great facility but I think if the member clubs got more clear info it'd be better. There was also a clear disconnect with some clubs in getting the info they did have to their members. I would bet that 75% of AGC rabge badge holders had no idea what was happening. Maybe things have changed in the last couple years since I've been there but reading threads like this make me think it's the same old thing.

 

[Uncle Duke]

The future of AGC is shooting, in any and all of its many forms. Or not. Which way that story goes is about what I might call the health of the organization's mindset, and the health of the physical facility both.

Action shooting is great, and its availability at AGC is an absolute win for everyone who wishes to participate. So is having a bench on Barnes available on a whim on a nice spring afternoon after work as the days get longer, with zero advance notice needed, and with zero wait.

One guy is shooting a black powder Smith carbine that you've never seen before, one with a history lesson you've likewise never heard. Another just bought a brand new rimfire, and is like a kid in a candy store. Yet another has an AR, or maybe a TC Contender or a Garand or a Mosin, next to the guy with the hunting rifle and his new scope upgrade. Or maybe our guy is a first time visitor with a 5 dollar bill in hand on hunter sight in day, with his very first scope that....OOPS.... might even be mounted backwards! Well, it won't be mounted backwards when he leaves.

Another is finding out that slug guns don't feel quite the same as AR's. The next guy over is working on load development, using a chronograph that someone else calls a "gizmo" in asking "what the hell is that", and finding out what information it might yield, and why that info might matter to some moreso than others. He too learned something today.

Maybe tomorrow, it's over to the pistol range, where you watch a bullseye shooter shooting better at 25 yards offhand than you have ever shot at 7 yards rested. And you just clear your pistol and watch for a while. Or a defensive shooter who is not the least bit proficient in bullseye at 25 yards, but is working on 2 rounds to center mass, and make it plenty quick and plenty precise enough at 7 yards. Then up to the trap range, where you'll see guys with Mossberg and Perazzi busting birds. I could go on, but if you've read this far, you get the picture. I've not begun to have scratched the surface.

ALL of these activities and disciplines matter. The AGC is uniquely positioned to provide opportunities in all shooting disciplines in the central part of this miserably liberal state. We need to get AGC right where it might not be right, and we need to keep it right. We surely can't count on any help outside of ourselves.

 

[GolfR]

The reality is the the AGC is run by volunteers. It always has been. It’s decisions, by and large, are made by a consensus of volunteers. It’s amazing that it is what it is today seeing that it’s not driven by profit for an owner. It’s even more amazing that people take so much time out of their personal lives to contribute, keep it running, and in the end give us a place to shoot and enable/create some jobs in the process. No one is perfect and the people who have dedicated time in leadership positions through the years were not high power businessmen, they were mostly just people who really loved to shoot and wanted a good place to do that. I think we are fortunate that we have a board who really are trying to do the right things to maintain the facility and grow the membership. I feel fortunate to have a place like the AGC to shoot.

For those spun up about raising fees and not knowing how the money is being spent…. If you aren’t involved in making the club better, volunteering YOUR time, and taking an active role in the clubs then you get more than you give. Treat the AGC as any other business and buy the badge for the value you get as there is really no question that the value is well beyond the comparable options. Mostly because there aren’t any comparable options within a couple hour drive. And most importantly put out a big THANK YOU to all the people who volunteer way too much of their personal time to keep the place running.

One more note…the club is looking for a new treasurer. If you don’t like the visibility into the finances, it sounds like the perfect opportunity to get involved and fix things by volunteering your time to fix it.

 

[Red1917]

A lot of interesting perspectives in this thread.

I probably spend more time at AGC than most people. I don’t say this to try to sound like I know everything, but to preface a few things here.

I normally attend my clubs monthly meetings. Every meeting, our trustee reports on what occurred at the AGC monthly meeting, and talks about financials, planned rule changes, projects, rate hikes, etc. There is always a lot of reactions from the crowd about increases or wasting money. He always says if anyone is interested, there is a detailed report at the front, feel free to take a look and get involved if you don’t like how money is being spent. I have yet to see anyone actually look at it. The information is there if someone wants to see it.

As one of the 3 Gun match directors, I have nothing but support for the “paper punchers” and I am not aware of action shooters who want to push them out. I shoot the bullseye pistol league almost every Tuesday. I’ve shot 2 high power matches so far this year, including the C&R match this past Saturday. When action shooters ask me how to get better at rifle shooting when they struggle on the 200 yard stages, I tell them to go to a high power match to learn and practice the fundamentals. When someone struggles with their pistol, I tell them come to the bullseye pistol league. To be frank I hear more talk from the “paper punchers” about action shooters. Doesn’t bother me though we all like what we like.

Nothing gets done there without volunteers. If you don’t like something, or want to start something new, get involved. Go to a club meeting. Show up at range day. Or just buy your badge and show up and shoot. You get out what you put in.

 

[Stoveman]

Probably someone getting upset that action shooting or RD reserved the 200yd bay for multigun? The premise of the AS community banding together to run off high power or metallic silhouette seems hilarious given that I don't even know anyone over there who shoots those sports, nor am I trying to compete for their resources. Honestly, I never even believed there was actual resistance towards the total no-brainer of building the bays, but this thread has shown me the truth, I suppose. The idea that AGC should just go on living like shooting hasn't advanced since 1965 is utterly bizarre to me.

What I do know is that action shooting is attracting 60+ paying people a weekend (never mind practice Thursdays), and they tend to be the younger crowd, with a pretty respectable smattering of women and minorities to boot. They are the people we need to attract to the shooting sports if we want to preserve our rights. I'm still utterly skeptical that the bays are losing money on an operating basis (how?), but if event fees need to be hiked to go cash neutral or positive, so be it.

And now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Was there a large expenditure to build the action shooting bays? Absolutely. But if AGC wanted to stay relevant there was no choice but to do so.

Unlike my cryptic friends who have posted previously, the latest reports that I have seen show that range badge sales are not meeting the projections to date but the action shooting matches fill up within hours or days of announcement.

As in any other business you have to spend money to make money and I predict that in the not do distant future that action shooting will have paid back the nut that it took to build the bays and purchase all the steel and will be subsidizing the average Joe who wants to sight in his new deer rifle or work up a load for their AR.

And that's fine, there should always be room for as many disciplines as can be accommodated no matter how esoteric. Currently the AGC excels at this.

And I will agree with the quoted poster, there are a lot more younger shooters, POC and women in the ranks of your average action shooting squad than I see when wandering the line of the Barnes and pistol range on any given day.

 

[Gryphon]

And now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Was there a large expenditure to build the action shooting bays? Absolutely. But if AGC wanted to stay relevant there was no choice but to do so.

Unlike my cryptic friends who have posted previously, the latest reports that I have seen show that range badge sales are not meeting the projections to date but the action shooting matches fill up within hours or days of announcement.

As in any other business you have to spend money to make money and I predict that in the not do distant future that action shooting will have paid back the nut that it took to build the bays and purchase all the steel and will be subsidizing the average Joe who wants to sight in his new deer rifle or work up a load for their AR.

And that's fine, there should always be room for as many disciplines as can be accommodated no matter how esoteric. Currently the AGC excels at this.

And I will agree with the quoted poster, there are a lot more younger shooters, POC and women in the ranks of your average action shooting squad than I see when wandering the line of the Barnes and pistol range on any given day.

This ^^^^^^^ times 10.

No cryptology in this message. No secret decoder ring required. Not having the time I formerly spent hanging out in these threads I really appreciate that.

I am an AGC Action Shooting RSO. I never shot at AGC, but came from another range to assist with the inaugural Steel Challenge match several years ago and have participated in at least one of the Action Shooting events every month since - except one. I purchased a range badge and renew every year.

Of course it cost a few coins to set up the Action Shooting Bays. Anyone with eyes can see it is was a worthwhile investment. The influx of shooters (both members and non-members) to these events is stellar. The events are exceptionally well run and safe.

I am not an accountant, and didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but am confident in saying the proceeds from Action Shooter events likely outpace other revenue streams at the AGC. After the original outlay, I can’t imagine how Action Shooting is a drain on other AGC events.

I have never heard an organizer or participant at any Action Shooting event complain, conspire or otherwise express an agenda untoward any of the other disciplines available at AGC. Quite the contrary. Disappointing to see inbound insinuations and a little mudslinging about a supposed agenda here online.

AGC has a lot to offer and is the hands down best outdoor facility in the metropolitan area. From what I see folks volunteering and running the organization continually strive to find ways to make things better and more sustainable for the entire club. I suspect current management would welcome constructive criticism. Cryptic and divisive online sh@t stirring? Probably not so much.

 

[JohnnyE]

How is AGC organized? Is it a corporation, LLC, etc.? Is it organized under the laws of the State of Maryland? Delaware?

Is it a non-profit 501(c) under the federal tax code?

 

[dist1646]

If anyone here is upset about my not fully airing dirty laundry on a public forum, get over it!

I have at various times, served as vice president of a charter club, executive officer of another club, as well as serving as trustee for 10 years. I have donated thousands upon thousands of dollars of material and labor to the range. I was the one who brought a dozer to the range and reworked the impact berms, at zero cost to the AGC. That was just prior to the All States National Pistol Championships that used to be held there. We received numerous compliments from shooters who came from all over the country. I donated to that event also. I have more than paid my dues.

I really don't care what discipline uses the 200 yd range, or any other, with one caveat, SAFETY must take top priority. I seriously doubt you will find anyone more pro shooting than I am. I am always helping others whenever help is needed.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming. I will no longer comment on the matter.

 

[Kilroy3006]

How is AGC organized? Is it a corporation, LLC, etc.? Is it organized under the laws of the State of Maryland? Delaware?

Is it a non-profit 501(c) under the federal tax code?

AGC is a 501(c)(4) not-for-profit. Donations to the AGC are NOT tax deductible.

AGC was incorporated in Maryland on 28 June 1944 and recorded with the state on 1 July 1944. It apparently forfeited its charter in 1976 and 1986. Articles of revival were filed in Maryland on December 8, 1987. The current resident agent is Michele L. Geidel of Essential Support Services LLC on Liberty Road.

All of the above incorporation history is a matter of public record: https://egov.maryland.gov/BusinessExpress/EntitySearch/Business

 

[JohnnyE]

AGC is a 501(c)(4) not-for-profit. Donations to the AGC are NOT tax deductible.

AGC was incorporated in Maryland on 28 June 1944 and recorded with the state on 1 July 1944. It apparently forfeited its charter in 1976 and 1986. Articles of revival were filed in Maryland on December 8, 1987. The current resident agent is Michele L. Geidel of Essential Support Services LLC on Liberty Road.

All of the above incorporation history is a matter of public record: https://egov.maryland.gov/BusinessExpress/EntitySearch/Business

Thanks, Kilroy.

I was rooting around the IRS website the other week because I work for a 501(c) nonprofit corporation and, IIRC, all 501(c)'s are required, by law, to make their IRS form 990's (the equivalent of my form 1040) for the past three years, available to the public. There is a daily fine for a failure to comply. I'm not a CPA or other sort of expert in the field. I hope someone with more knowledge than me will jump into this discussion. Any paper-trail is good for accountability.