BATFE To Ban Common AR-15 Ammo - XM 855 green tips

[Mdeng]

Has anyone else considered that this is being done because the Federal government lost a patent lawsuit and the original patent holder was awarded 15 million in damages?

 

[BRONZ]

I wonder how much I can get for Win. M855 on strippers.

Rainy day ammo.

I think people love to post about the shy is falling. Every gun site has it posted and the dumbass' will go out and buy it for a $1 a rd. You only win if you stay two steps ahead.

 

[Bertfish]

In what way?

I ordered 1200 rounds, and they route to a 3rd party site to process the credit card.

Seemed to go through fine.

They had a big data breech a few months back and many credit card numbers were stolen

 

[Bertfish]

Has anyone else considered that this is being done because the Federal government lost a patent lawsuit and the original patent holder was awarded 15 million in damages?

Source? I'd like to learn more

 

[DC-W]

There's a thread in it here somewhere but that has zero to do with this. That is over m855a1, a completely different projectile.

 

[unclebuck]

They had a big data breech a few months back and many credit card numbers were stolen

The early 2014 breech at Widener's is what had me concerned about ordering from their site. I read something similar had happened a couple years earlier, so was curious about current status.

FWIW, I decided not to get 855 due to price. I had been considering picking up more 5.56 for a couple weeks, so went with a couple lower price per round (non-855) listings on gunbot... and got a fraud warning later that day... I had used the card with three vendors in a few days, so I don't know which was compromised.

 

[jpk1md]

Folks,

ATF's attempt to classify this ammo as AP is bunk and if they persist they will end up in a costly and embarrassing lawsuit because the ammo fails to meet the Fed/legal definition of "AP" defined in US Code.

This is much ado about nada and is nothing more than ATF attempting to break the law and badger folks

If Congress were smart about it they would have hearing about the ATF breaking the law and badger the snot out of the administration and ATF

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

(17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Its comprised mostly of lead so it fails the first and it was not designed and intended for use in a handgun.....and I'm pretty sure the jacket doesnt have a weight of 25% of the projectile

 

[JohnnyE]

Folks,

ATF's attempt to classify this ammo as AP is bunk and if they persist they will end up in a costly and embarrassing lawsuit because the ammo fails to meet the Fed/legal definition of "AP" defined in US Code.

This is much ado about nada and is nothing more than ATF attempting to break the law and badger folks

If Congress were smart about it they would have hearing about the ATF breaking the law and badger the snot out of the administration and ATF

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

(17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Its comprised mostly of lead so it fails the first and it was not designed and intended for use in a handgun.....and I'm pretty sure the jacket doesnt have a weight of 25% of the projectile

Precisely! M855 has a copper jacket, and its core is NOT entirely one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium. It's core is predominantly lead, with a small piece of steel at the tip. For ATF to declare M855 to be "armor piercing" under law, it would need to have a core comprised ENTIRELY of one or more of the listed substances.

 

[jpk1md]

Precisely! M855 has a copper jacket, and its core is NOT entirely one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium. It's core is predominantly lead, with a small piece of steel at the tip. For ATF to declare M855 to be "armor piercing" under law, it would need to have a core comprised ENTIRELY of one or more of the listed substances.

The russian 5.45x39 ban we've heard about fails to meet the definition of AP either but the admin can attempt to ban its import as non sporting

 

[JohnnyE]

The russian 5.45x39 ban we've heard about fails to meet the definition of AP either but the admin can attempt to ban its import as non sporting

The way I interpret it, the statute, goes on to say that “armor piercing ammunition” does not include armor piercing ammo that the Attorney General recognizes as a sporting ammo. This should mean that while an ammo may meet the armor piercing definition, (having a tungsten alloys, depleted uranium, etc. core) the AG may nevertheless declare it to be sporting ammo, and thus exempted from a ban. It allows otherwise AP ammo to be sold, NOT to ban ammo that does not fall under the armor piercing definition that is based on metals in the core. I need to dig deeper into the 7N6 ban to determine how that was justified. Maybe it is subject to a legal challenge. The way I see it, the statue permits the sale of all non-AP ammo, and, any AP ammo that the AG determines happens to be sporting ammo.

 

[Kagetsu]

This brings a question to mind. AP ban are supposed to be about pistol rounds.
Why whenever I ask about .308 black tip AP, LGS respond Like I dropped a bag of goofer dirt?

 

[tomandjerry00]

Petition isn't going to come close to 100k at this rate. Less than 1k new signatures a day and slowing down....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[outrider58]

I think it's a ploy to get US to buy up the last of the old penetrator ammo since they've gone to the newer round. They know how to push our buttons.

 

[Pinecone]

Has anyone else considered that this is being done because the Federal government lost a patent lawsuit and the original patent holder was awarded 15 million in damages?

No, because the patent deal is for the M855A1 round, NOT the M855 round.

 

[Pinecone]

They had a big data breech a few months back and many credit card numbers were stolen

So?

I have had maybe 4 cards hacked over the last year or so. Only downside is that it takes a few days to get a new card.

My card gets hacked or stolen, some whacky charges show up, the credit card company contacts me, I tell them NO, I did not place those charges, and they close the account and send me a new card.

 

[outrider58]

So?

I have had maybe 4 cards hacked over the last year or so. Only downside is that it takes a few days to get a new card.

My card gets hacked or stolen, some whacky charges show up, the credit card company contacts me, I tell them NO, I did not place those charges, and they close the account and send me a new card.

You beat me by two!

 

[DC-W]

I'm seeing that .22 and .22mag over 40 grain will be banned too. Didn't catch that before

 

[Long1MD]

It is not kicking ass. They are not counting your votes on that petition. If you don't believe me sign it with a different name and email and see if your vote gets counted. It won't! For every 1000 users they are maybe counting 1 or 2 votes. You are better slamming them with emails, letters, faxes & phone calls! This is not the time to sit on the sidelines everyone should get involved in this fight!

Not sure how true that is. Every petition that I ever signed shows my signature on the petition.

 

[Pinecone]

I'm seeing that .22 and .22mag over 40 grain will be banned too. Didn't catch that before

Where are you seeing that?

Only M855/SS109 bullets are on the block.

NOT rimfire.

Not that many .22LR are greater than 40 gr mainly 40 and DOWN.

 

[DC-W]

Where are you seeing that?

Only M855/SS109 bullets are on the block.

NOT rimfire.

Not that many .22LR are greater than 40 gr mainly 40 and DOWN.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150213/batfe-to-ban-common-ar-15-ammo

Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles

A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge.