Gerald Ung incident in Philly

[Darkemp]

Trolls?? I thought it was just the one guy?

Never just one...

 

[Maryland_Shooter]

Never just one...

Strange his two buddies hauled ass after he got shot. Bottom line - they were drunk - spent the night doing shots and beers.

Damned shame the police didn't grab them as witnesses and see what story they got before they sobered up and lawyered up.

Story also says the girl with him joing one of the three in trying pull ups on the scafolding.

If some of the statements that are attributed to Ung can be verified or a jury believes them, he's got problems.

What a tragedy - one guy is screwed up and the other facing serious charges. No winners here at all.

 

[ffemtreed]

I still think the video tells all.

I think its completly irrelevant what happened prior to the video. Even if Ung was laying the beat down on those people or trying to cause a fight or calling them every name in the book.

The video clearly shows Ung backing away and trying to avoid further confrontation. No add in the fact he was greatly outnumbered and was possibly being flanked. That is self defense. If you pull a gun on someone and they still bull rush you, your life IS on the line.

Being drunk or have taken drugs doesn't matter, even if Ung was in an enraged state, it doesn't matter. The video clearly shows him trying to get away while being attacked.

 

[traveller]

I think its completly irrelevant what happened prior to the video. Even if Ung was laying the beat down on those people or trying to cause a fight or calling them every name in the book.

For you it may not matter, for the law it does.

 

[csanc123]

So I guess the law allows you to get surrounded by 4 a$$holes without you being able to defend yourself. Nice.

For you it may not matter, for the law it does.

 

[Ethan83]

For you it may not matter, for the law it does.

Not really, as far as I understand. The law - at least here in MD, I'm not sure how PA differs - would recognize that he was faced with a legitimate threat of SBI, and was doing his best to retreat at the time he was forced to shoot. I'm not sure where you get the idea that you're allowed to assault somebody because he said something you don't like. Assault is assault is assault, and the video clearly shows Ung being assaulted. End of story.

 

[traveller]

So I guess the law allows you to get surrounded by 4 a$$holes without you being able to defend yourself. Nice.

The law doesn't allow you to provoke someone into a fight* and then claim self-defense if your opponent ends up dead or injured.





*I dont know whether Ung in fact provoked the drunks beforehand, from the testimony that trickles out of the courtroom that seems to be an argument the prosecution is building in this case.

 

[traveller]

I'm not sure where you get the idea that you're allowed to assault somebody because he said something you don't like. Assault is assault is assault, and the video clearly shows Ung being assaulted. End of story.

This 'idea' is not something I came up with. This is rooted in english common law:


When there is mutual combat upon a sudden quarrel,
both parties are the aggressors, and if in the fight one is killed
it will be manslaughter at least."

Every self-defense statute that I have come accross so far (see PA quoted above) has something to that effect.

 

[Maryland_Shooter]

Hard case - I would not want to be the defendant. Even if it is a very close case (and I think it is), daddy's juice may push just enough to convict.

Bad mojo

 

[ffemtreed]

The law doesn't allow you to provoke someone into a fight* and then claim self-defense if your opponent ends up dead or injured.





*I dont know whether Ung in fact provoked the drunks beforehand, from the testimony that trickles out of the courtroom that seems to be an argument the prosecution is building in this case.

Actually I would argue that it does. You are only allowed to defend yourself until the threat is over. Think of it this way, say I punch you in the face inside a bar, you don't have the right to jump me when I walk out of the bar to get even with me. Just because i assaulted you earlier (even if it was only minutes) doesn't give you the right to continue the confrontation. As soon as I walk outside that bar and you jump me, you are now the aggressor, no mater what happened inside that place.

 

[11Bravo]

Incident caught on tape here

http://blackpoliticalthought.blogspot.com/2010/01/gerald-ung-third-year-law-student.html

 

[11Bravo]

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/Old_City_Shooting_01_17_10

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

Ung's innocent. He will eventually be acquitted (hopes and prayers). Glad I sent money.

I saw the video. I'm confident in my perception. It was pretty straightforward. There is no ambiguity as far as I'm concerned.

 

[K-Romulus]

Update: jury starts deliberating today.

Yesterday, Ung actually took the stand for 90 minutes. His lawyer is pretty good, so this was a high-stakes gamble that he thought Ung should take. The reporting in the Philly paper is not so great, with Ung quoted as saying "he was in a daze" and "everything happened so fast."


Ung's version of the "flirting" at the start of the incident was one of the meatheads trying to kick Ung's female friend while she tried to do a pullup. When Ung tried to call her away, the meathead asserted that he could touch the friend if he wanted. Things went downhill from there.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/l...lains_actions_in_Old_City_shooting_trial.html

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/b..._recounts_Old_City_shooting__I_was_dazed.html

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/116175349.html?cmpid=15585797

In closing arguments, the prosecutor keep claiming that Ung "had other options," like running, crossing the street, or calling 911.

Luckily for Ung, the jury got to see over 70 seconds of videotape.

ETA: I just found another news story about the start of deliberations-
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2..._of_student_charged_in_Old_City_shooting.html

According to the prosecutor, "This is Old City, not the Old West." And "you can't shoot people because you're being disrespected."

 

[Half-cocked]

In closing arguments, the prosecutor keep claiming that Ung "had other options," like running, crossing the street, or calling 911.

Yep, call 911 so the police can arrive after you're beaten half to death. THAT makes sense... and the prosecutor knows damned well that Ung TRIED to escape the confrontation. What an idiot.

According to the prosecutor, "This is Old City, not the Old West." And "you can't shoot people because you're being disrespected."

I wonder if that prosecutor would volunteer to have his ass kicked by 6 young thugs, maybe for only 5 minutes or so. Perhaps then he could tell us what it feels like to be "disrespected".

 

[ffemtreed]

Sounds like the prosecution knows they are in a weak spot and is trying to strong arm the jury with statements not backed up by facts.

 

[K-Romulus]

BREAKING- Ung acquitted of all charges. . .reported at Philly.com. . .can't post link with phone. . .

 

[hvymax]

Thank God. I hope he can recover damages from somebody.

 

[JohnnyBmore]

This is very good news!!

 

[Half-cocked]

THANK GOD.

To the piece of shit spoiled little bastard lacrosse thug: YOU should have been the one charged!