HAS ANYONE REQUESTED THEIR REGISTRATION FILE AT MSP?

[GBMaryland]

I've had about as high a clearance as a normal person can get and never had any questions or reference to firearms owned

Same here... but I DID have a person from OPM indicate once that they had a "good working relationship the the [firearms] registration section" of the MSP.

However, let's be honest. If you signed all the paperwork for a security clearance, you're privacy went out the door. You shouldn't remotely be suprised that the USG has the ability to figure out what you've got, unless it was a face to face in State transfer of an unregulated long gun.

 

[marte616]

Excellent letter. We should pin this so everyone can see/do this.

Let's give credit to COGCON, whom edited my original letter. I did fax the request to MSP....we'll see what they say.

 

[DieHard4192]

PIA requests have to be very specific. You cant use it for fishing. You have to know exactly what documents you want, and their dates and who was involved.

Im not saying your doing it wrong but wouldnt be surprised if it comes back blank since officially MSP doesnt track.

This. Interned with a large LEA in MD (not MSP) and got placed in their legal office. Saw a lot of MPIA requests. Lots of return letters saying we can't do anything about your request until you give us information XYZ. Even if they do have the files they think you want expect a long wait between mailing time, time for the request to get to the right office/section, processing time to find the documents, billing you if it takes any effort to find/make copies of the document prior to release, and then final release.

 

[cogcon]

I just received a call from Jack McCauley, MSP, in regards to my very recent request. He professionally ran down each of my items and explained in detail what did/did not exist and what can/cannot be released. He also mentioned the fee structure. They will estimate the number of man hours the effort will take to research and respond to your request. The first 2 hours of research and effort are free. Additional hours are billed at prevailing rates. Given the staffing levels and the crush of applications, PIA requests must be done using overtime rates, which are $90/hr.

(A) Access to and copies of any and all documentation, searches, database information, electronic and paper holdings, including, but not limited to, Geospatial Information Systems (GIS) data, regarding the ownership of regulated and non-regulated firearms by me. MSP uses something called Maryland Automated Firearm Search Service (MAFSS) that lists all regulated transactions. They do not have an visibility on non-regulated transactions. No GIS data (other than your address from the 77R-2) is contained in MAFSS.

(B) Any information you may hold on the locations and storage, purchase history, licensing, use, disposition, transactions, transfers of such weapons, accessories, and ammunition, that you may have on my person. See above regarding MAFSS. Additionally, all paper copies of MSP 77R-2s are stored in boxes in the basement. They will dig them out, copy them, redact select PII info, and send them to you. Please note that this will eat up a lot of your request time you may be charged for.

(C) Copies of any medical information you may have collected pursuant to the mandatory medical waiver form signed prior to transfer of regulated firearms in Maryland.
MSP does not keep any info. When you sign the waiver, they use the info to enter your name, DOB, and last 4 of your SSN into the MD Dept of Health database. You are either listed or not. If you are not listed, then they move along. No paper records are used. If you have an entry, then you should have the Dr.'s note attached to your application per the 77R-2 instructions. If not---Disapproved. Either way, this type information is not releasable under the governing regulations.

(D) Any information that MSP Licensing Division, or any MSP Office or Division may have on my person, and not limited to this agency or this state, and including Federal Government agency files of which your agency may have copies or access to, and/or shared with, including but not limited to BATFE, FBI. They have to way of knowing this up front. To answer this, MSP would have to write each and every LE organization asking them to see if you have a file and whether or not MSP released data. Mission impossible under the current non-automated structure.

(E) Clarification as to what specific measures MSP takes in order to shield or protect my privacy regarding the items I am requesting on this letter of access by a third-party, such as the press or a private entity. They will strip out select PII when they send out releasable information, but there is not current protection in regards to shielding information from the media or other citizen requests.

Since I do not have any Class 3 items (yet), I did not ask and do not know how they would track this, other than to guess they make an entry into MAFSS.

I do want to reiterate that this was a very friendly, professional conversation. I would highly suggest for those who are interested to ask for a copy of their information contained in the MAFSS database. This type request is easy to process and will provide you with 99.9% of what you want to know (about what they know about you).

 

[rob-cubed]

Thanks for your diligence on this Cogcon! Good to finally get an official answer on a question which pops up regularly on the forum.

In regards to your comment on NFA items, if you have not applied as a trust then the local CLEO signoff requirement would record you as owning a particular item. I can only assume this goes into the MAFSS database as well.

 

[crazycarl7]

paperwork

So, if I sold a regulated handgun to someone out of state 9 years ago, and sent it to their FFL dealer, how does that affect the list?

 

[NateIU10]

So, if I sold a regulated handgun to someone out of state 9 years ago, and sent it to their FFL dealer, how does that affect the list?

It's still in there under your name

 

[FrankOceanXray]

Lets give MSP a break and not tie up resources at the moment anymore than they are.

Id rather see more NOT DISAPPROVED forms than a document of what guns I did paperwork for.

This is all important work here though, I agree. Id like to see all my gun's fired shell casings, too.........

 

[bratgirllcp]

ok i never figured it out ??????????? tel me please thanks

 

[cogcon]

It's still in there under your name

That's a good reason to get a copy of your MAFSS paperwork. That way I can match it up with a bill of sale or how I disposed of the firearm. For instance, I sold and shipped a Colt 6920 via FFL to another member (a topic of another conversation). I entered the FFL's license number and the UPS tracking number on a spreadsheet I keep. That way, I can demonstrate due diligence.

IF registration goes through, I want to make sure my paperwork is in order.

That said, I will be there on the 6th and 8th.

 

[Watkins87]

SO is there TRULY a way to TRACK who has what?

 

[Bob A]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Bob A wrote:

To: msp.firearmsregistration@maryland.gov

Can you tell me, or tell me who to contact, to obtain a list of firearms which have been registered to me in Maryland over the years?

Thank you.

Bob A


The Reply:


You can send a letter requesting the copies to Rose Brock, 1111 Reisterstown Rd Pikesville MD 21208

Maryland State Police
Support Services Bureau
Licensing Division
Firearms Registration Section
1111 Reisterstown Road
Baltimore, MD 21208


Seems pretty simple. Letter sent.

 

[juan_galto]

Thanks for the thread (and the avatar on p. 1).

 

[Ab_Normal]

No GIS data (other than your address from the 77R-2) is contained in MAFSS.

Trust me they know more than that. Maybe not in that system but they do know.

 

[Rack&Roll]

None.

"If the FFL (assuming an FFL was involved) had collected any paperwork, and has since gone out of business, once their "book" was closed out... the papers for background checks, etc. would have been destroyed."

The above is not true. When FFLs go out of business their records are not destroyed. The files become the property of the BATF and they take custody of them.

What does FOIA stand for?

"Freedom Of Information Act" which allows you to ask the government for any records of anything that is not classified as secret or a threat to national security. By the way PITA stands for Pain In The Ass--which is not a Fed acronym. PIA is Pubic Information Agent or Agency.

 

[Bob A]

Well, I rec'd a call from the Maryland State Police Monday evening, in the middle of making a pot of tomato sauce. Inconvenient timing.

What was interesting was that it was in response to my letter, above, requesting a list of the firearms registered to me. Interesting because (1) I didn't include a phone number, and (2) my number is non-published. Also, it's non-published under another name, not the one I use for legal purposes.

Beyond that, she was disinclined to honor my request, as it comprised some 27 pages of info. However, she was not willing to refuse me outright, and seemingly unwilling to copy and send all 27 pages.

After some discussion (alas, my poor sauce) we compromised; she would read me the serial numbers, along with the maker and caliber of the guns involved. OK, I'll take what I can get, and push later, if need be.

So off we went, with me scribbling as fast as I could. Here's something interesting: she had no idea just what my stripped lower from Engage was. It just read "ZZZ 00212". Took me a while to connect the dots.

Then there were two items that she claimed to have no info for. By the dates, one was a Chinese AK that I got from a member here last summer, transfer at MSP Jessup. No ID, no serial number. A couple days later, the same thing - no ID, no number. Oddly, I didn't have another transfer/purchase at that time. Only thing I can figure is that date 1 was the original session at the barracks, and date 2 was the day they finalised the not disapproval.

That said, they had on their list every regulated weapon that I'd purchased thru a MD FFL since 1976.

She seemed mildly concerned that I might have stuff not on the list. I explained that face to face transactions of this sort were perfectly legal in those strange dark days before she was born; also, my C&R permitted me to engage in transactions outside the MD system.

It remains to be seen whether I will receive late-night visits from MSP to clarify the situation. I hope they wait until the weather warms up; no one will be welcome inside without a warrant, so we'll have to talk on the porch.

 

[gmhowell]

Very interesting indeed. I wonder why she didn't want to send you a copy of the list?

 

[ADR]

That said, they had on their list every regulated weapon that I'd purchased thru a MD FFL since 1976.

And there it is, proof of what we knew all along. I'm not surprised that she didn't want to provide you a copy of what they had.

 

[Merlin]

With all the talk about registration, and the recent incidents in NY and TX of papers releasing names and addresses of gun owners, I was thinking...

has anyone requested from MSP a copy of their dossier, i.e., any information they may have on you regarding collector status, gun ownership and registration information, investigator's notes for your CCW application, etc.. etc?

I think I will call them tomorrow and ask on how to proceed....it will probably take a FOIA, but I am willing to submit one (have done before with the Feds).

I will let you guys know how it goes...

In 2007 my wife and I were becoming foster parents and I had to contact the MSP and get a printout of the guns I own. At that time you had to go to the Jessep MSP location. The trooper gave me my printout and the only guns listed were my regulated guns. I explained to the trooper that I needed the complete list of everything I own. He told me they only have records of my regulated guns because they do not keep track of any non regulated guns.

 

[malone630]

They do know what when and from where you got regulated fireearms my father just got a copy of his and yes long guns are on there as well.