Looking for entry level "long range" rifle.

[trickg]

I heard something similar and I was actually looking at some of the custom options and including that exact same chasis earlier tonight, but I'm still considering which way to go.

I have no regrets about choosing the Bighorn action. I invested in the tools so I have the ability to spin on any barrel I want, and all I have to do is change the bolt face. It was more expensive, but I think it was worth it.

 

[4g64loser]

I have no regrets about choosing the Bighorn action. I invested in the tools so I have the ability to spin on any barrel I want, and all I have to do is change the bolt face. It was more expensive, but I think it was worth it.

And your rig SHOOTS.

Of course you can decide to hang a creedmoor barrel on it for whitetail or prs or whatever. You can get a 7rsaum barrel if you want to go to thunder valley. All in the same action/stock and shooting the same trigger and optic that you are familiar with.

 

[Squaregrouper]

I have the Bergara B-14 BMP in 6.5 Man Bun and absolutely LOVE it. I don't know if they're discontinued, but they're tricky to find.
The .308 vs. 6.5CM debate, described by me, is that if you're inside 500yds, the 6.5 has no advantages other than slightly less recoil. Get to 700-800yds and the CM starts to shine. Past 1000yds, the 6.5CM is the obvious winner.
.

 

[Bountied]

Tikka T3X TAC A1 6.5CM with a Vortex PST GEN2. Golf ball size groups at 500yds. The action is so smooth. The trigger out of the box is great, could be better. Mags are pricey but you really only need 2 or 3. Mine seems to like factory ammo better than my handload. I only made up 100 rounds in two configurations and need to anneal and do a little more research to find the sweet spot. For a factory gun the Tikka gets my vote. Scopes are another discussion all together. I only wish the rail on the tikka had 20MOA built in so I only needed rings for it. I ended up getting a 1 piece mount with 20 or 30 MOA in it, can't remember which. Before that I had a riser and rings but it looked goofy. Only things I changed were the grip, went with Hogue, added a larger bolt knob, and put a tuner instead of the factory brake which was huge.

 

[4g64loser]

Custom rifle kool aid is the best kool aid.

 

[trickg]

View attachment 419256
Custom rifle kool aid is the best kool aid.

It looks like 27.0 and 27.8 are the clear winners.

And your rig SHOOTS.

Of course you can decide to hang a creedmoor barrel on it for whitetail or prs or whatever. You can get a 7rsaum barrel if you want to go to thunder valley. All in the same action/stock and shooting the same trigger and optic that you are familiar with.

Yep - very simple to swap out, and that was one of the things I really appreciated about it.

If I had a complaint, it would be that the 50 gr bullets I've been using don't seem to do well with any kind of wind if the range gets out much past 200. I had that rifle in Kansas over Memorial Day weekend and was at a range with some relatives trying to hit Tannerite at some longer distances - 300 and 400 yards - but we had a pretty strong cross wind. It is Kansas after all. That's the second time I had issues getting on target at longer distances in the Midwest, and part of it was that I just wasn't reading and accounting for the wind worth a hill of beans.

The rifle is certainly capable - it's my skills with it that are sometimes lacking.

 

[INMY01TA]

I have the Bergara B-14 BMP in 6.5 Man Bun and absolutely LOVE it. I don't know if they're discontinued, but they're tricky to find.
The .308 vs. 6.5CM debate, described by me, is that if you're inside 500yds, the 6.5 has no advantages other than slightly less recoil. Get to 700-800yds and the CM starts to shine. Past 1000yds, the 6.5CM is the obvious winner.
.

I seen one in Bass Pro once a few years ago, very nice.

 

[Doctor_M]

View attachment 419256
Custom rifle kool aid is the best kool aid.

That is some fine shooting, sir!

 

[Squaregrouper]

I seen one in Bass Pro once a few years ago, very nice.

That doesn't look like the rack at Bass Pro.

 

[4g64loser]

That is some fine shooting, sir!

Gamechanger for a rear bag and a bipod. Anything else is cheating.

 

[4g64loser]

It looks like 27.0 and 27.8 are the clear winners.


Yep - very simple to swap out, and that was one of the things I really appreciated about it.

If I had a complaint, it would be that the 50 gr bullets I've been using don't seem to do well with any kind of wind if the range gets out much past 200. I had that rifle in Kansas over Memorial Day weekend and was at a range with some relatives trying to hit Tannerite at some longer distances - 300 and 400 yards - but we had a pretty strong cross wind. It is Kansas after all. That's the second time I had issues getting on target at longer distances in the Midwest, and part of it was that I just wasn't reading and accounting for the wind worth a hill of beans.

The rifle is certainly capable - it's my skills with it that are sometimes lacking.

As a bonus, I can hold single digit ES at 27 and sometimes hit it at 27.8 for five shot strings when I do everything right in the prep process. Double weight checked charges, especially. I'll have to look for the records but I think half those three shot test groups were under 10 es.

Everyone gripes about neck turning but you (usually) only have to do it once. Then you can external size only. Minimal brass movement. I have cases that have been fired ten plus times and I still use them for load development of new bullets.

The only way to get good in wind is to shoot in wind. It ain't going to be much better with heavies in the 223 at 300. Inside 500, I like speed. Shoot em light and rocket fast. My 22-250ai asks "what wind?"

 

[trickg]

As a bonus, I can hold single digit ES at 27 and sometimes hit it at 27.8 for five shot strings when I do everything right in the prep process. Double weight checked charges, especially. I'll have to look for the records but I think half those three shot test groups were under 10 es.

Everyone gripes about neck turning but you (usually) only have to do it once. Then you can external size only. Minimal brass movement. I have cases that have been fired ten plus times and I still use them for load development of new bullets.

The only way to get good in wind is to shoot in wind. It ain't going to be much better with heavies in the 223 at 300. Inside 500, I like speed. Shoot em light and rocket fast. My 22-250ai asks "what wind?"

That's because the 22-250ai bullet isn't in the air long enough for it matter!

This is a good argument for me to go lighter on my bullet and push it harder. Unfortunately I haven't had much time recently to do much of anything - I've had my hands full with other stuff. I'll get back to it soon though.

 

[4g64loser]

That's because the 22-250ai bullet isn't in the air long enough for it matter!

This is a good argument for me to go lighter on my bullet and push it harder. Unfortunately I haven't had much time recently to do much of anything - I've had my hands full with other stuff. I'll get back to it soon though.

Yep. It's a time of flight problem.

Removes the need to lead movers, too.

I'd all but guarantee you can hit 3800 with a 40 in your rig. Start with Nosler 40BTips. They handle high velocities very well due to solid base design. If you can't find them, the tipped varmageddon or the 40 berger will put you on. All tolerate seating depth ranges well.

 

[RFBfromDE]

This Fudd wants wood dammit!

 

[smdub]

Wind: Isn't BC a bigger factor when you run all the calcs? A 40gr 224 VMAX is 0.200(G1). Then compare that to a 140gr 6.5MB(Man-Bun(tm) squaregrouper) ELD w/ a 0.646(G1). I'm not running through all the calcs in my tablet here but you'd have to launch that 22-250 at over 3x the speed of the 6.5 (so that it has 1/3 the flight time to compensate for its 3x higher wind drift)? If the 6.5 make 2600fps * 3 = 7800fps. Hmm, that seems too extreme. I might have to run some actual numbers through the ballistic calculator today.
I do know this is where 6.5MB beats 308 even for shorter ranges. The BC is superior. Faster flatter round (less errors due to ranging) AND less wind drift (less error due to wind speed/direction estimation.) Even well inside 500yds the 6.5 will be easier to shoot more accurate groups than .308 on anything but a calm day. (everything else equal.)

Disclaimer: I don't shoot long range. While I own one of the rifles in the OPs list I've only shot one of Ed Shell's weekend classes. Haven't shot for small groups in years.

 

[4g64loser]

This Fudd wants wood dammit!

Then see if you can find a richard franklin stocked varmint rifle that someone is selling. You will not find a finer wood stock.

 

[4g64loser]

Wind: Isn't BC a bigger factor when you run all the calcs? A 40gr 224 VMAX is 0.200(G1). Then compare that to a 140gr 6.5MB(Man-Bun(tm) squaregrouper) ELD w/ a 0.646(G1). I'm not running through all the calcs in my tablet here but you'd have to launch that 22-250 at over 3x the speed of the 6.5 (so that it has 1/3 the flight time to compensate for its 3x higher wind drift)? If the 6.5 make 2600fps * 3 = 7800fps. Hmm, that seems too extreme. I might have to run some actual numbers through the ballistic calculator today.
I do know this is where 6.5MB beats 308 even for shorter ranges. The BC is superior. Faster flatter round (less errors due to ranging) AND less wind drift (less error due to wind speed/direction estimation.) Even well inside 500yds the 6.5 will be easier to shoot more accurate groups than .308 on anything but a calm day. (everything else equal.)

Disclaimer: I don't shoot long range. While I own one of the rifles in the OPs list I've only shot one of Ed Shell's weekend classes. Haven't shot for small groups in years.

In short, nope.

I can get into the details when I have more time but BC is not the only concern. Speed flat out works. A fast, low bc, bullet will bleed velocity faster than a higher bc bullet but where these "cross" depends a great deal on the case driving the projectiles. I'll pull some numbers in a standard value crosswind on a barrel I shoot multiple projectiles through. Can't currently as I'm away from my gear. If you need to understand it now, punch a 40BTip at 4350 into the berger calculator online and then do the same for a 77smk or Nosler cc at 3100. Check drift at TOF at different distances.

If you want to talk about things being equal, you need to stick to a single case. If you want to compare different cases, things aren't even close to equal. A 223 is not going to compare to a 308 or 6.5 creed as it's in a totally different capacity class.

A 308, using loads well inside the limits in MULTIPLE manuals, is driving a 155 berger hybrid or sierra Palma to 2900 (2929avg last time I chronographed my 24" barrel. I can pull my numbers later but I regularly beat guys shooting creeds at the 500yd line playing HORSE.

My 260s will flat out rock a mil or more less drop with around 30 percent less drift at a grand than my 308 but my 3006 shoots inside both.

 

[INMY01TA]

That doesn't look like the rack at Bass Pro.

That’s the counter at Bass Pro Shop.

 

[smokey]

If .4" groups are good enough for your needs....

https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper/

 

[smdub]

In short, nope.

I can get into the details when I have more time but BC is not the only concern. Speed flat out works. A fast, low bc, bullet will bleed velocity faster than a higher bc bullet but where these "cross" depends a great deal on the case driving the projectiles. I'll pull some numbers in a standard value crosswind on a barrel I shoot multiple projectiles through. Can't currently as I'm away from my gear. If you need to understand it now, punch a 40BTip at 4350 into the berger calculator online and then do the same for a 77smk or Nosler cc at 3100. Check drift at TOF at different distances.

If you want to talk about things being equal, you need to stick to a single case. If you want to compare different cases, things aren't even close to equal. A 223 is not going to compare to a 308 or 6.5 creed as it's in a totally different capacity class.

A 308, using loads well inside the limits in MULTIPLE manuals, is driving a 155 berger hybrid or sierra Palma to 2900 (2929avg last time I chronographed my 24" barrel. I can pull my numbers later but I regularly beat guys shooting creeds at the 500yd line playing HORSE.

My 260s will flat out rock a mil or more less drop with around 30 percent less drift at a grand than my 308 but my 3006 shoots inside both.

Using 'dark mode' which is broken on MDS so I'll do the best I can quoting...

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10mph wind, 100yd data.
Varmit 40gr FB (0.151(G1)) @ 4350fps, = 1.58" windage
Target 75gr VLD (0.421(G1)) @ 3100fps = 0.72" windage
Those are the two closest bullets I could find in their list to the weights you spec'ed.
Through a little trial and error with the calculator, you have to slow down the VLD to 1800fps to get almost identical 1.56" windage. That is ratio of speed is similar to the ratio of the BCs. 2.4 vs 2.1.