Luger P08

[KMK1862]

Well the Deaths Head is SS of course. Did the Waffen SS carry Lugers or was it mainly the Allgemeine SS? I feel like the Waffen SS had mainly the new stuff like P38s but I'm sure someone on here knows better.

IIRC, it's rare that the Germans would put a death's head (Totenkopf, in German) on a holster. Do you know if the totenkopf was embossed into the leather or was it a metallic insignia? It was commonplace at some point after the war to "decorate" guns and holsters with insignia or military awards. I've seen photos of hosters with the metallic uniform or hat eagle stuck onto them. IMO, totally a fantasy peice, the Germans wouldn't have done this at the factory.

You will find some SS sourced K98k's with the totenkopf stamped on the barrel.

Sometime in the mid to late 30's the SS also absorbed all of the police forces in Germany. We know that the police were issued Lugers and also the Waffen SS. I'm not expert on the Allgemeine SS, but according to what I've read, the officers were issued what was termed an Ehrenwaffe (Honor Arm/Weapon). This was supposed to be a 7.65 Walther PPK and was carried in a holster on their uniform belt. I think they all received a dagger as well, but I'm not sure.

IIRC, you have it backwards, at least initially. The German Army (Heer) was not fond of the Waffen SS and saw them as a rival. They worked hard to deny the Waffen SS access to army weapons. The Waffen SS was forced to source its weapons where it could, and, initially, many of these were 2nd line/2nd rate weapons. I know that many of their K98k's were actually reworked Gew.98's with the barrels shortened or replaced to K98k specs. The Gew.98 receiver markings were removed as well. At some point during the war, the army did give the Waffen SS access to army stores and weapons. I think a lot of us (myself included before I really studied it) think of the Wehrmacht, and especially the SS as this cookie cutter military force were everyone carried only a standard German weapon. In reality, the Germans gladly used any weapon stored in countries they overran, especially if they were in standard German calibers such as 7.92, 7.65, and 9mm. There is a somewhat well known photo of some German soldiers near a half-track and I believe one of the soldiers is carrying a Browning High-Power.

 

[Indiana Jones]

IIRC, it's rare that the Germans would put a death's head (Totenkopf, in German) on a holster. Do you know if the totenkopf was embossed into the leather or was it a metallic insignia? It was commonplace at some point after the war to "decorate" guns and holsters with insignia or military awards. I've seen photos of hosters with the metallic uniform or hat eagle stuck onto them. IMO, totally a fantasy peice, the Germans wouldn't have done this at the factory.

You will find some SS sourced K98k's with the totenkopf stamped on the barrel.

Sometime in the mid to late 30's the SS also absorbed all of the police forces in Germany. We know that the police were issued Lugers and also the Waffen SS. I'm not expert on the Allgemeine SS, but according to what I've read, the officers were issued what was termed an Ehrenwaffe (Honor Arm/Weapon). This was supposed to be a 7.65 Walther PPK and was carried in a holster on their uniform belt. I think they all received a dagger as well, but I'm not sure.

IIRC, you have it backwards, at least initially. The German Army (Heer) was not fond of the Waffen SS and saw them as a rival. They worked hard to deny the Waffen SS access to army weapons. The Waffen SS was forced to source its weapons where it could, and, initially, many of these were 2nd line/2nd rate weapons. I know that many of their K98k's were actually reworked Gew.98's with the barrels shortened or replaced to K98k specs. The Gew.98 receiver markings were removed as well. At some point during the war, the army did give the Waffen SS access to army stores and weapons. I think a lot of us (myself included before I really studied it) think of the Wehrmacht, and especially the SS as this cookie cutter military force were everyone carried only a standard German weapon. In reality, the Germans gladly used any weapon stored in countries they overran, especially if they were in standard German calibers such as 7.92, 7.65, and 9mm. There is a somewhat well known photo of some German soldiers near a half-track and I believe one of the soldiers is carrying a Browning High-Power.

This is all very interesting thanks for clarifying. I love the Wehrmacht history. The nazis were assholes but the military equipment was first rate. A great book you guys might like is called Die Wehrmacht. It's a 2 part series. I have series one which is all infantry weapons. Number 2 has mainly artillery and such.

 

[ma_deuce]

Chiming in a little late on this one, but wanted to say I'd encourage the Nun and anyone else with an interest in Lugers to go for it. They're incredible pieces of 19th-century technology and the machinist's art. I wouldn't want to depend on one under battlefield conditions (that's why the holsters completely covered them), but they're a lot of fun, and not everyone at the range is going to have one.

About the best free resource I know of to learn about them is www.lugerforum.com. There's a ton of articles, links, references and the discussion forums themselves. Only one thing - you've got to join (free) to access the threads - otherwise it tells you there's no threads in the forum.

Re repro Lugers. Mauser resumed limited production in the '70s and '80s, using original equipment. However, for some reason they didn't make the P.08; instead, they made guns similar to the Model 1900 Swiss guns - grip safety and straight front grip strap, no shoulder stock lug. No biggie - a lot of collectors specialize in the Swiss guns, and the born-again Mausers were beautifully finished and worked as well as any Luger. 5 or 10 years ago they were running around $800 - 900, but prices have gone up the last few years like with all Lugers, and they more often bring around $1,200 or more in good condition. These are not reproductions - like I said, they were made on original equipment and Mauser was the company that took over production from the Imperial gov't's DWM works after WWI. Beware, however, of the stainless steel Mitchell Arms and Stoeger guns. As was said above, the parts are not truly interchangeable with the originals and a lot of them were cast, in a time when casting technology was not what it has become today. They are known for their FTF and other problems.

Finally, some Luger porn of my 1916 Erfurt shooter. All matching numbers inside and out, including the magazine, but salt reblued and restrawed. I got it for less than $600 about 10 years ago, and haven't seen one as nice for less than $1,000 lately. Anyway, go for it - it won't get any cheaper.

 

[Jimbob2.0]

Ive got my eye on one for $1,100 that isnt import marked and I would say 70% bluing.........its killing me not to go for it. If I only had that C&R I wont get because I will go wild wiht the purchases.

Its funy all of our other guns pretty much are slides on frames, ya sure some may ride the rails on the outside, some on the inside some poly some steel but really variations on the same theme.

A toggle action is that different thing we wont see again.

 

[KMK1862]

MaDuece, that's a fine looking Erfurt you have there. I love how the Imperial Germans stamped those proofs liberally Aren't the Erfurts considered slightly more valuable than a DWM?

 

[Boom Boom]

How about this...Maybe we can get a deal from a dealer if we buy 2 of them. I am interested in one for myself

I am also interested. I've been looking for one locally for months. No luck. It's got to be WWII or earlier, German army issued, matching parts. Price not an issue for the right one. Want it as a collectible, not an occasional range piece.

 

[BlackBart]

I recommend a VOPO. They were reworked properly and work properly. They are inexpensive and they haven't been faked...yet. Most people want primo grade collector stuff so no one cares about the lowly VOPO. However, because they were reworked for the Eastie police and or NVA, they are as reliable (in my experience) as a matching one. Here are two of mine and I have less then $1000 in the PAIR. So, if you want a shooter, consider a DDR jobber. BTW, they ARE becomming collectable and finally starting to get the attention they deserve.

Almost all were rebarreled too and shot zero to little so they have excellent barrels too.

Nice, I could live with either of them quite nicely!

 

[Deep Creek Rock]

Mulligans in Ridgely WV, has a German Luger for sale in there glass case. I cant recall the exact date it was - but I recall it was very early (old).

They wanted over $2000 for it. I was there a few weeks ago when I saw it.

 

[KMK1862]

Mulligans in Ridgely WV, has a German Luger for sale in there glass case. I cant recall the exact date it was - but I recall it was very early (old).

They wanted over $2000 for it. I was there a few weeks ago when I saw it.

They can be a minefield. For me, anything over $1,200 needs to be evaluated closely.

 

[ma_deuce]

MaDuece, that's a fine looking Erfurt you have there. I love how the Imperial Germans stamped those proofs liberally Aren't the Erfurts considered slightly more valuable than a DWM?

Thanks. It's no collector piece, but it gets some respect even from the folks that run the ranges where I shoot. Luger proofmarks are a study unto themselves - there've been whole books written about them. I've never had the patience, but some people can probably give you the names of the inspectors' wives and kids. I'm not sure, but you may be right that Erfurt prices run a little higher than DWMs. I do know that nothing beats the rust blue DWM used to put on their guns, except maybe the inter-war Simsons and Krieghoffs.

For anyone interested, I've seen some pretty good Lugers out there recently. Christian Soldier on Harford road has had 2 or 3, Gunrunner up in Frederick has or had a nice late '30s (I think) Mauser, and the pawn shop in Havre de Grace had a decent DWM that wasn't too pricey, as I recall. Plus Continental has one or two at not too bad prices. None of them under $1,000, but none of them too high for what they were, IMHO.

When I'm home I'll look up the link to a place out in the mid-West I've got bookmarked that'll have anyone interested in Lugers salivating. I forget the name right now, but they sometimes have shooter-grade guns that seem to be a cut above what you often see, at not-too-bad prices.

 

[screamingeagle]

This is all very interesting thanks for clarifying. I love the Wehrmacht history. The nazis were assholes but the military equipment was first rate. A great book you guys might like is called Die Wehrmacht. It's a 2 part series. I have series one which is all infantry weapons. Number 2 has mainly artillery and such.
View attachment 50392

The Allies won the war but the Nazi's won the fashion show.

 

[Indiana Jones]

The Allies won the war but the Nazi's won the fashion show.

AWESOME quote

 

[Jimbob2.0]

I just got one (actually put what I think was a fairly low bid in). Hope I didnt hurt myself on it will be anxious to see it in person.

Downside:

DWM
Non-nazi marked
two small non matching parts, trigger and takedown lever
SDVI mark "XX"d out. Dont quite get that, would have expected that on a Russian capture.

Upside:

All other parts match
Bore looks good from the photo, looks like it has some dust (obviously not pits)
90% blueing
Holster, 1936 stamped with Warrant Officer's name (tracked name down, the gun is in the same state the guy served in)
Two aluminum base mags with matching numbers that match the gun.

I will have about $1200 in it shipping and transfer factored in. Hope I didnt just get hurt! There is another one I want but not sure I am going to be able to snap up two.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Held a 1938 Luger at continental today. Had some eagles. $1600. Mag doesn't match and some small parts don't. Very clean nice original blue. Thoughts?

 

[Dan44]

Too much. Its a mis match.

 

[Indiana Jones]

ALMOST put money down on it. It looks in great shape but it's too much for a mismatch eh?

 

[KMK1862]

ALMOST put money down on it. It looks in great shape but it's too much for a mismatch eh?

Way too much. Do a search on Gunbroker for Luger and sort on price. You want the highest prices first or else you'll get a ton of hits for 9mm Parabellum/Luger ammo.

While not a perfect price research tool, it'll give you an idea of the market prices. You can research prices for all matching and mis-matched pistols. It'll give you a ballpark.

You can get a mismatched, refinished, import marked WW2 Luger for way under $1000 if you keep your eyes open. I feel uncomfortable giving exact price quotes due to not being in the market right now, but with some determined searching, I belive an all matching Luger (except for mags) could be found for around $1000

 

[jimbobborg]

That link I put up earlier has an option for a matching pistol for another $100 or so.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Ok thanks I'll do that! When I held it I was like a lightbulb went off. I must have one. Felt so right in my hand.

 

[ma_deuce]

I've seen the gun you're talking about at Continental, and agree it's priced too high, although it does look good. Just be patient, and keep an eye on GB, AuctionArms and Gunsamerica. But watch out for the one outfit down in TX that has about half the Luger postings on GB - they're known for creative descriptions and outrageous pricing.

Lugers are maybe the best natural pointers there are. Damned good thing, because I don't think you can find shittier sights than that tiny little notch on the toggle.