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  • gforce

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 22, 2018
    507
    I've added Lifevac to my First aid kit. Over 1.4K folks have been saved from choking using this gadget. The company will replace it for free if you ever use it.

    That’s an interesting piece of kit. If it’s effective I might have to add it to my kits
     

    Mule

    Just Mule
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2013
    661
    I put together a list of resources that should be helpful to quickly get up to speed on the basics. Some of the content may also be of interest to those with training, as well.




    Knowledge Transfer Resources

    Dark Angel Medical - Tourniquet Intro Part 1



    Dark Angel Medical - Tourniquet Intro Part 2



    Surefire/Dark Angel Medical - How To Use A Tourniquet



    Dark Angel Medical - How To Stage And Prepare A CAT



    Dark Angel Medical - How To Use A Chest Seal



    Dark Angel Medical - Wound Packing Intro
    https://youtu.be/kss1fh_3G7s



    Dark Angel Medical - Free Stop The Bleed Training
    https://youtu.be/AU0__7UWB5E



    H&H Medical - Wound packing (Potentially graphic, depending on sensitivity)
    https://youtu.be/Q3n_WU0LCac



    TacMed Solutions - SOF Tourniquet Gen 4 Flat-Fold Technique
    https://youtu.be/RKMBaGvghWE



    Mountain Man Medical - Flat folding the SOF-T
    https://youtu.be/edywdWF16cc



    Mountain Man Medical - How To Fold And Apply The Combat Action Tourniquet
    https://youtu.be/BFYz83XLqo0



    Mountain Man Medical - Wound Packing
    https://youtu.be/WMi52AytSLw



    Mountain Man Medical - Emergency Trauma Response Training Course
    https://www.mountainmanmedical.com/product/emergency-trauma-response-training-course/



    Mountain Man Medical - Range Medicine Training Course
    https://www.mountainmanmedical.com/product/range-medicine-training-course/




    What To Buy

    CoTCCC Recommended Devices (Summary List)
    https://books.allogy.com/web/tenant/8/books/f94aad5b-78f3-42be-b3de-8e8d63343866/

    ConcealedCarry.com - Unveiling the Essentials of a Stop the Bleed Kit
    https://www.concealedcarry.com/medical/tampons-dont-stop-the-bleed/





    In-Person Training Resources

    Active Response Training
    Greg Ellifritz
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/



    Lone Star Medics
    Caleb Causey
    https://www.lonestarmedics.com/



    Dark Angel Medical
    Kerry Davis
    https://darkangelmedical.com/





    Training Scenario Resources

    Lone Star Medics Hip-Pocket Medical Drills
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/hip-pocket-medical-drills






    Tourniquet Manufacturers

    TacMed Solutions
    Special Operations Forces Tourniquet (SOF-T)
    https://tacmedsolutions.com/


    North American Rescue
    Combat Application Tourniquet (CAT)
    https://www.narescue.com/





    Reputable Vendors

    Dark Angel Medical
    https://darkangelmedical.com/



    Chinook Medical
    https://www.chinookmed.com/



    Rescue Essentials
    https://www.rescue-essentials.com/



    Phlster
    https://www.phlsterholsters.com/



    ITS Tactical
    https://store.itstactical.com/collections/medical



    Medical Gear Outfitters (Skinny Medic)
    https://medicalgearoutfitters.com/



    Phokus Research
    https://www.phokusresearch.com/






    Advanced Resources

    Deployed Medicine (Defense Health Agency)
    https://deployedmedicine.com/



    Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC)
    https://jts.health.mil/index.cfm/committees/cotccc



    CoTCCC Recommended Devices and Adjuncts (eBook)
    https://deployedmedicine.com/market/31/content/100
     

    Mule

    Just Mule
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2013
    661

    My plan is to continue to update my above post with additional resources, over time. When I do, I'll also make a general "Post 102 updated" post. (Not sure why some of the above video links auto preview, while others don't)


    I'd also like to share some additional thoughts, recommendations and best practices, based on things I've learned:

    --- Videos and books are helpful, but aren't as useful as hands-on training. So, try to get some "in-person" knowledge transfer, where you're shown the proper ways to use the gear, and given a chance to practice those skills under the instructor's supervision. "Stop The Bleed" classes are routinely offered by local organizations (governments/places of worship/businesses, etc), and are often no-cost or low-cost. Start there, and then build on those with additional training. (I've taken classes from all three of the companies listed in my above post, and recommend all of them. [so much so that I've taken additional classes from 2/3, and will try to get from the third])

    --- Don't train with your "real" gear. Buy an extra tourniquet, packet of gauze, and pressure bandage that you can use for practice.

    --- Be sure to take your tourniquet out of the wrapper and properly stage it, so that it's ready to go when needed

    --- Use your trainers in different scenarios/situations, whether during dedicated practice sessions (meaning, a chunk of time you set aside for practice) or impromptu ones. (something you can do as you sit in your living room and watch a game)

    Practice applying the TQ to yourself. Right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg. Then, practice applying it to a willing partner. Practice applying the pressure bandage to someone else. Then, work on applying to yourself.

    Once you've mastered the basics, start making it more difficult on yourself. Give yourself time limits, use a blindfold, put yourself in awkward positions, etc. Practice doing it while lying down, in the car, or limiting your available space to simulate super close confines.

    Work on doing everything correctly, and with as much economy of motion as possible, so that you can achieve the goal as quickly as possible.

    The more repetitions you acquire, the more natural the processes will become. Then, as you begin limiting yourself, you'll start to understand the types of "gotchas" you might encounter, and how to handle them when you do. With that will come proficiency and confidence in your abilities.

    --- If you have a choice, use products recommended by the Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC) These have been vetted, tested, and performed reliably enough to be the ones selected for use by our armed forces.

    --- Don't put someone's life at risk, by using products that may not be legitimate. Only buy your equipment from trusted sources, who sell genuine products. There are a lot of counterfeits that look similar, but are cheaply made, and will likely not perform as needed. This is most applicable to tourniquets, but can apply to other components. Buying some items (gloves, basic gauze, shears, splints, etc) on Amazon is no issue, but it's best to get your critical and/or higher-end products (tourniquet, hemostatic agents, etc.) from reputable sources.

    --- Buying components and building your own kit can often be cheaper than buying a pre-assembled kit. If you don't have a dedicated bag, a gallon-size ziplock-style freezer bag makes a good field-expedient container for your gear. (Also, the freezer bag is usually low-profile enough to slip into hydration pockets in backpacks)

    --- Chest seals may likely be more important than tourniquets for civilians, as we probably won't be wearing body armor, which means we're more likely to need those "stickers" to patch torso holes. If you're looking for an EDC (on-body) H&H Medical's Compact Wound Seal (HHWSK02) seems to be the smallest one currently available. Also, you'll almost always need two seals for each gunshot wound.

    --- The quality of packaging for vacuum-sealed components varies. So, do your best to protect it.

    --- If you carry medical gear, you should routinely check it to ensure that it's suitable. Check your on-body equipment once a month, check your car and home kits once or twice a year. Replace anything that's reached its expiration date, has lost its vacuum seal, or is visibly damaged.

    --- When you do replace something, instead of throwing it away, try to extend its life by transitioning it to "training equipment" or by moving it to your long-term "when SHTF and it's TEOTWAWKI, this will be better than nothing" box

    --- Just about everything boils down to "do as much as you can to stabilize and prepare for treatment to the next level", until the patient reaches a surgeon. First Responder (you) --> EMS --> Emergency Department --> Surgery

    --- Even if you do everything right, the patient may still have a bad outcome
     
    Last edited:

    hobiecat590

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2016
    2,499
    That’s an interesting piece of kit. If it’s effective I might have to add it to my kits
    Mike Rowe has interviewed the inventor a few times on his podcast "The Way I Heard It" if you want more info on how this was developed. It is foolproof and and much more effective than the "Heimlich maneuver". It is essentially a mask that acts like a pump w/ a one way ball valve to provide all the suction needed to vacuum out whatever is obstructing a choking victim's airway. Place it on the face and press down on the mask a few times is all that is needed. Last Christmas, I sent Lifevacs to my family members as presents. Amazon has cheaper copies but are junk. One of inventors goals is to get these into every school in the country.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,537
    I put together a list of resources that should be helpful to quickly get up to speed on the basics. Some of the content may also be of interest to those with training, as well.




    Knowledge Transfer Resources

    Dark Angel Medical - Tourniquet Intro Part 1



    Dark Angel Medical - Tourniquet Intro Part 2



    Surefire/Dark Angel Medical - How To Use A Tourniquet



    Dark Angel Medical - How To Stage And Prepare A CAT



    Dark Angel Medical - How To Use A Chest Seal



    Dark Angel Medical - Wound Packing Intro
    https://youtu.be/kss1fh_3G7s



    Dark Angel Medical - Free Stop The Bleed Training
    https://youtu.be/AU0__7UWB5E



    H&H Medical - Wound packing (Potentially graphic, depending on sensitivity)
    https://youtu.be/Q3n_WU0LCac



    TacMed Solutions - SOF Tourniquet Gen 4 Flat-Fold Technique
    https://youtu.be/RKMBaGvghWE



    Mountain Man Medical - Flat folding the SOF-T
    https://youtu.be/edywdWF16cc



    Mountain Man Medical - How To Fold And Apply The Combat Action Tourniquet
    https://youtu.be/BFYz83XLqo0



    Mountain Man Medical - Wound Packing
    https://youtu.be/WMi52AytSLw



    Mountain Man Medical - Emergency Trauma Response Training Course
    https://www.mountainmanmedical.com/product/emergency-trauma-response-training-course/



    Mountain Man Medical - Range Medicine Training Course
    https://www.mountainmanmedical.com/product/range-medicine-training-course/




    What To Buy

    CoTCCC Recommended Devices (Summary List)
    https://books.allogy.com/web/tenant/8/books/f94aad5b-78f3-42be-b3de-8e8d63343866/

    ConcealedCarry.com - Unveiling the Essentials of a Stop the Bleed Kit
    https://www.concealedcarry.com/medical/tampons-dont-stop-the-bleed/





    In-Person Training Resources

    Active Response Training
    Greg Ellifritz
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/



    Lone Star Medics
    Caleb Causey
    https://www.lonestarmedics.com/



    Dark Angel Medical
    Kerry Davis
    https://darkangelmedical.com/





    Training Scenario Resources

    Lone Star Medics Hip-Pocket Medical Drills
    https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/hip-pocket-medical-drills






    Tourniquet Manufacturers

    TacMed Solutions
    Special Operations Forces Tourniquet (SOF-T)
    https://tacmedsolutions.com/


    North American Rescue
    Combat Application Tourniquet (CAT)
    https://www.narescue.com/





    Reputable Vendors

    Dark Angel Medical
    https://darkangelmedical.com/



    Chinook Medical
    https://www.chinookmed.com/



    Rescue Essentials
    https://www.rescue-essentials.com/



    Phlster
    https://www.phlsterholsters.com/



    ITS Tactical
    https://store.itstactical.com/collections/medical



    Medical Gear Outfitters (Skinny Medic)
    https://medicalgearoutfitters.com/



    Phokus Research
    https://www.phokusresearch.com/






    Advanced Resources

    Deployed Medicine (Defense Health Agency)
    https://deployedmedicine.com/



    Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC)
    https://jts.health.mil/index.cfm/committees/cotccc



    CoTCCC Recommended Devices and Adjuncts (eBook)
    https://deployedmedicine.com/market/31/content/100

    Awesome. Thanks for the contribution.
     

    gforce

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 22, 2018
    507
    Mike Rowe has interviewed the inventor a few times on his podcast "The Way I Heard It" if you want more info on how this was developed. It is foolproof and and much more effective than the "Heimlich maneuver". It is essentially a mask that acts like a pump w/ a one way ball valve to provide all the suction needed to vacuum out whatever is obstructing a choking victim's airway. Place it on the face and press down on the mask a few times is all that is needed. Last Christmas, I sent Lifevacs to my family members as presents. Amazon has cheaper copies but are junk. One of inventors goals is to get these into every school in the country.
    I’ll look into them. I like the idea, it seems to make sense. I’ll probably buy a few of them for kits. do they have any heat intolerance?
     

    gforce

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 22, 2018
    507

    My plan is to continue to update my above post with additional resources, over time. When I do, I'll also make a general "Post 102 updated" post. (Not sure why some of the above video links auto preview, while others don't)


    I'd also like to share some additional thoughts, recommendations and best practices, based on things I've learned:

    --- Videos and books are helpful, but aren't as useful as hands-on training. So, try to get some "in-person" knowledge transfer, where you're shown the proper ways to use the gear, and given a chance to practice those skills under the instructor's supervision. "Stop The Bleed" classes are routinely offered by local organizations (governments/places of worship/businesses, etc), and are often no-cost or low-cost. Start there, and then build on those with additional training. (I've taken classes from all three of the companies listed in my above post, and recommend all of them. [so much so that I've taken additional classes from 2/3, and will try to get from the third])

    --- Don't train with your "real" gear. Buy an extra tourniquet, packet of gauze, and pressure bandage that you can use for practice.

    --- Be sure to take your tourniquet out of the wrapper and properly stage it, so that it's ready to go when needed

    --- Use your trainers in different scenarios/situations, whether during dedicated practice sessions (meaning, a chunk of time you set aside for practice) or impromptu ones. (something you can do as you sit in your living room and watch a game)

    Practice applying the TQ to yourself. Right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg. Then, practice applying it to a willing partner. Practice applying the pressure bandage to someone else. Then, work on applying to yourself.

    Once you've mastered the basics, start making it more difficult on yourself. Give yourself time limits, use a blindfold, put yourself in awkward positions, etc. Practice doing it while lying down, in the car, or limiting your available space to simulate super close confines.

    Work on doing everything correctly, and with as much economy of motion as possible, so that you can achieve the goal as quickly as possible.

    The more repetitions you acquire, the more natural the processes will become. Then, as you begin limiting yourself, you'll start to understand the types of "gotchas" you might encounter, and how to handle them when you do. With that will come proficiency and confidence in your abilities.

    --- If you have a choice, use products recommended by the Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC) These have been vetted, tested, and performed reliably enough to be the ones selected for use by our armed forces.

    --- Don't put someone's life at risk, by using products that may not be legitimate. Only buy your equipment from trusted sources, who sell genuine products. There are a lot of counterfeits that look similar, but are cheaply made, and will likely not perform as needed. This is most applicable to tourniquets, but can apply to other components. Buying some items (gloves, basic gauze, shears, splints, etc) on Amazon is no issue, but it's best to get your critical and/or higher-end products (tourniquet, hemostatic agents, etc.) from reputable sources.

    --- Buying components and building your own kit can often be cheaper than buying a pre-assembled kit. If you don't have a dedicated bag, a gallon-size ziplock-style freezer bag makes a good field-expedient container for your gear. (Also, the freezer bag is usually low-profile enough to slip into hydration pockets in backpacks)

    --- Chest seals may likely be more important than tourniquets for civilians, as we probably won't be wearing body armor, which means we're more likely to need those "stickers" to patch torso holes. If you're looking for an EDC (on-body) H&H Medical's Compact Wound Seal (HHWSK02) seems to be the smallest one currently available. Also, you'll almost always need two seals for each gunshot wound.

    --- The quality of packaging for vacuum-sealed components varies. So, do your best to protect it.

    --- If you carry medical gear, you should routinely check it to ensure that it's suitable. Check your on-body equipment once a month, check your car and home kits once or twice a year. Replace anything that's reached its expiration date, has lost its vacuum seal, or is visibly damaged.

    --- When you do replace something, instead of throwing it away, try to extend its life by transitioning it to "training equipment" or by moving it to your long-term "when SHTF and it's TEOTWAWKI, this will be better than nothing" box

    --- Just about everything boils down to "do as much as you can to stabilize and prepare for treatment to the next level", until the patient reaches a surgeon. First Responder (you) --> EMS --> Emergency Department --> Surgery

    --- Even if you do everything right, the patient may still have a bad outcome
    Great posts, lots of good information. Thanks for putting it all together
     

    hobiecat590

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2016
    2,499
    I’ll look into them. I like the idea, it seems to make sense. I’ll probably buy a few of them for kits. do they have any heat intolerance?
    Here is their response:

    "LifeVac has been tested after being exposed to extreme temperatures and performed well and as expected. We recommend you keep it out of direct sunlight, so the center console, trunk or glove compartment is where people normally keep their travel kits."

    I can't vouch for the knockoffs on Amazon that tend to fall apart.
     

    hobiecat590

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2016
    2,499

    My plan is to continue to update my above post with additional resources, over time. When I do, I'll also make a general "Post 102 updated" post. (Not sure why some of the above video links auto preview, while others don't)


    I'd also like to share some additional thoughts, recommendations and best practices, based on things I've learned:

    --- Videos and books are helpful, but aren't as useful as hands-on training. So, try to get some "in-person" knowledge transfer, where you're shown the proper ways to use the gear, and given a chance to practice those skills under the instructor's supervision. "Stop The Bleed" classes are routinely offered by local organizations (governments/places of worship/businesses, etc), and are often no-cost or low-cost. Start there, and then build on those with additional training. (I've taken classes from all three of the companies listed in my above post, and recommend all of them. [so much so that I've taken additional classes from 2/3, and will try to get from the third])

    --- Don't train with your "real" gear. Buy an extra tourniquet, packet of gauze, and pressure bandage that you can use for practice.

    --- Be sure to take your tourniquet out of the wrapper and properly stage it, so that it's ready to go when needed

    --- Use your trainers in different scenarios/situations, whether during dedicated practice sessions (meaning, a chunk of time you set aside for practice) or impromptu ones. (something you can do as you sit in your living room and watch a game)

    Practice applying the TQ to yourself. Right arm, left arm, right leg, left leg. Then, practice applying it to a willing partner. Practice applying the pressure bandage to someone else. Then, work on applying to yourself.

    Once you've mastered the basics, start making it more difficult on yourself. Give yourself time limits, use a blindfold, put yourself in awkward positions, etc. Practice doing it while lying down, in the car, or limiting your available space to simulate super close confines.

    Work on doing everything correctly, and with as much economy of motion as possible, so that you can achieve the goal as quickly as possible.

    The more repetitions you acquire, the more natural the processes will become. Then, as you begin limiting yourself, you'll start to understand the types of "gotchas" you might encounter, and how to handle them when you do. With that will come proficiency and confidence in your abilities.

    --- If you have a choice, use products recommended by the Committee on Tactical Combat Casualty Care (CoTCCC) These have been vetted, tested, and performed reliably enough to be the ones selected for use by our armed forces.

    --- Don't put someone's life at risk, by using products that may not be legitimate. Only buy your equipment from trusted sources, who sell genuine products. There are a lot of counterfeits that look similar, but are cheaply made, and will likely not perform as needed. This is most applicable to tourniquets, but can apply to other components. Buying some items (gloves, basic gauze, shears, splints, etc) on Amazon is no issue, but it's best to get your critical and/or higher-end products (tourniquet, hemostatic agents, etc.) from reputable sources.

    --- Buying components and building your own kit can often be cheaper than buying a pre-assembled kit. If you don't have a dedicated bag, a gallon-size ziplock-style freezer bag makes a good field-expedient container for your gear. (Also, the freezer bag is usually low-profile enough to slip into hydration pockets in backpacks)

    --- Chest seals may likely be more important than tourniquets for civilians, as we probably won't be wearing body armor, which means we're more likely to need those "stickers" to patch torso holes. If you're looking for an EDC (on-body) H&H Medical's Compact Wound Seal (HHWSK02) seems to be the smallest one currently available. Also, you'll almost always need two seals for each gunshot wound.

    --- The quality of packaging for vacuum-sealed components varies. So, do your best to protect it.

    --- If you carry medical gear, you should routinely check it to ensure that it's suitable. Check your on-body equipment once a month, check your car and home kits once or twice a year. Replace anything that's reached its expiration date, has lost its vacuum seal, or is visibly damaged.

    --- When you do replace something, instead of throwing it away, try to extend its life by transitioning it to "training equipment" or by moving it to your long-term "when SHTF and it's TEOTWAWKI, this will be better than nothing" box

    --- Just about everything boils down to "do as much as you can to stabilize and prepare for treatment to the next level", until the patient reaches a surgeon. First Responder (you) --> EMS --> Emergency Department --> Surgery

    --- Even if you do everything right, the patient may still have a bad outcome
    Great scoop. Do you have a book that you can recommend with pictures and a paragraph on the back of each one for amateurs? ;-) My EFR text is OK but more detail would be better. Thanks for taking the time to list trusted sources of kit supplies.
     

    gforce

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 22, 2018
    507
    Here is their response:

    "LifeVac has been tested after being exposed to extreme temperatures and performed well and as expected. We recommend you keep it out of direct sunlight, so the center console, trunk or glove compartment is where people normally keep their travel kits."

    I can't vouch for the knockoffs on Amazon that tend to fall apart.
    I haven’t seen any bad press on them and I like the concept so I’ve got a few on order. I’ll shift them around my car and work kits. Thanks for recommending them and following up on their temperature resistance.
     

    Ecestu

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2016
    1,471
    I grew up on nuclear submarines where our only medical resource was a Navy corpsman, which I (jokingly) put on par with Civil War doctors, voodoo shamans and bleeding with leeches. The entire crew *knew* that you just didn't want "Doc" cutting on you in an emergency, so we all took great care not to be injured while we were out at sea.
    Are you telling me that ibuprofen isn't the cure-all?? :beer:
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    34,131
    I haven’t seen any bad press on them and I like the concept so I’ve got a few on order. I’ll shift them around my car and work kits. Thanks for recommending them and following up on their temperature resistance.
    Bump.

    Brian Kilmeade just interviewed the LifeVac inventor, Arthur Lih, on FNC.

     

    PharaohF4

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2010
    2,472
    Bump.

    Brian Kilmeade just interviewed the LifeVac inventor, Arthur Lih, on FNC.

    Thanks. Just ordered the 3 pack for $180. 1 home and 2 car.
     

    Tower43

    USMC - 0311
    Jul 6, 2010
    4,044
    Lusby, MD
    I have seen, in person, attempted uses of real lifevacs in Montgomery County that did NOT work. No, I cannot go provide proof, because a) I don't remember exact times and dates, hell I've run 911 there over a decade and b) that would violate HIPAA.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,621
    Glen Burnie
    gimmick junk that doesnt actually work
    It says for use after current protocols did not work. So then what? It's not worth a try?

    Yeah sorry. No one should listen to your take on this.
    Everyone should be able to take advantage of anything that could help when all else fails.

    So what happened when you saw that these gimmicks didn't work? EMS crew just sitting there watching someone choke out because there were no other options?
     

    boule

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 16, 2008
    1,948
    Galt's Gulch
    It says for use after current protocols did not work. So then what? It's not worth a try?
    Well, the end of the current protocol is an ET tube, push the obstruction past the carina and ventilate one lung..... not going to help me there, unless it is going to replace bronchoscopy.

    In order for this little gadget to work, you need an obstruction in the trachea that can be readily moved, occludes the lumen completely and you need to have sufficient gas in the lungs to expell it. Given how much "vacuum" it is creating and that you have a mask with a questionable seal in an emergency? If someone wants to get that little squeeze thing, hook it up to a clear tube and place an obstruction in, be surprised.

    Instead of spending money on gimmicks, get something that is proven to work. An Ambu bag with a mask and a little training will move most stuff in the trachea into the right bronchus and you still have enough lung capacity left to make it to the hospital.
     

    Crosseye Dominant

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 1, 2018
    1,027
    It says for use after current protocols did not work. So then what? It's not worth a try?

    Yeah sorry. No one should listen to your take on this.
    Everyone should be able to take advantage of anything that could help when all else fails.

    So what happened when you saw that these gimmicks didn't work? EMS crew just sitting there watching someone choke out because there were no other options?

    Once someone loses consciousness you are going to move to CPR. Between the increased force you can apply with solid ground as the backboard, and the head tilt/ chin lift, you might actually end up dislodging the blockage. Even if you don't, you are still helping move blood around the body. Even compression only cpr will help until 911 gets on scene.

    Sometimes there really is not a blockage that can be removed per se... person could be having an allergic reaction constricting airway. I've had that when I as on my own time at a restaurant and had to help with no crew. Guy was choking so I assumed food. .. turned out to be an allergic reaction to the coke he has just snorted in the bathroom.
     

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