Medical skills preparedness

[Grampa G]

Interesting discussion, thanks for the extra thoughts about the product

 

[Blaster229]

Well, the end of the current protocol is an ET tube, push the obstruction past the carina and ventilate one lung..... not going to help me there, unless it is going to replace bronchoscopy.

In order for this little gadget to work, you need an obstruction in the trachea that can be readily moved, occludes the lumen completely and you need to have sufficient gas in the lungs to expell it. Given how much "vacuum" it is creating and that you have a mask with a questionable seal in an emergency? If someone wants to get that little squeeze thing, hook it up to a clear tube and place an obstruction in, be surprised.

Instead of spending money on gimmicks, get something that is proven to work. An Ambu bag with a mask and a little training will move most stuff in the trachea into the right bronchus and you still have enough lung capacity left to make it to the hospital.

Your everyday soccer mom isn't taking an ambu bag class. Those aren't their protocols.
You EMS guys should have a get together one day and just talk first aid to each other and impress yourselves. LOL

Again, 70 bucks off the shelf to keep in the car in case you need to help a family member is just a waste?
Your answer is to go take an EMTB course instead.

It's like pocket carry of a mouse gun. I don't agree with it and it certainly doesn't replace a larger gun properly carried, but may help in a pinch and it's better than nothing.

 

[boule]

Again, 70 bucks off the shelf to keep in the car in case you need to help a family member is just a waste?
Your answer is to go take an EMTB course instead.

In that case - it is a waste of $70. Sorry to say so but they tried to sell us something similar at the hospital as a great gimmick. Could not even pull a piece of hospital-food brocoli or potato through a 7 ET tube and with a better vacuum solution than this little piece. If you think that you are getting a decent seal and vaccuum after a few month storage in the car and the hectic of an emergency with the person choking on something...... well, good luck

our everyday soccer mom isn't taking an ambu bag class.

Which is much easier to operate than that vacuum.....

It's like pocket carry of a mouse gun. I don't agree with it and it certainly doesn't replace a larger gun properly carried, but may help in a pinch and it's better than nothing.

It's kinda like blowing a rape whistle in a park full of perverts. Won't do much in the current situation but if you delay appropriate treatment or even calling 911 it may make it even worse.

 

[Blaster229]

In that case - it is a waste of $70. Sorry to say so but they tried to sell us something similar at the hospital as a great gimmick. Could not even pull a piece of hospital-food brocoli or potato through a 7 ET tube and with a better vacuum solution than this little piece. If you think that you are getting a decent seal and vaccuum after a few month storage in the car and the hectic of an emergency with the person choking on something...... well, good luck

Which is much easier to operate than that vacuum.....



It's kinda like blowing a rape whistle in a park full of perverts. Won't do much in the current situation but if you delay appropriate treatment or even calling 911 it may make it even worse.

Can't remember the last time a 7 ET tube was choking on some potato or broccoli. Good info to know.
Did the Heimlich work on that ET tube? I bet it didn't.

 

[Tower43]

It says for use after current protocols did not work. So then what? It's not worth a try?

Yeah sorry. No one should listen to your take on this.
Everyone should be able to take advantage of anything that could help when all else fails.

So what happened when you saw that these gimmicks didn't work? EMS crew just sitting there watching someone choke out because there were no other options?

EMS isnt going to stand there either, not only do we have training, we have suction devices (active suction not a plunger for your face that doesnt work), but advanced providers who would be coming too also have tubes, bougies, and megill forceps. Been doing this shit for 18 years, I have a bit of a clue. Hell I sat there picking pieces of saliva soaked bread out of a special needs individuals' throat with megill's to clear his throat because out (then suction catheters, now we carry better tips) were inadequate) didn't work... I know what works and what doesnt. These are expensive gimmicks. Wanna spend your hard earned money on stuff in this economy be my guest, but just trying to save people some dough. Be better off taking a CPR class and learning the Heimlich

 

[Blaster229]

EMS isnt going to stand there either, not only do we have training, we have suction devices (active suction not a plunger for your face that doesnt work), but advanced providers who would be coming too also have tubes, bougies, and megill forceps. Been doing this shit for 18 years, I have a bit of a clue. Hell I sat there picking pieces of saliva soaked bread out of a special needs individuals' throat with megill's to clear his throat because out (then suction catheters, now we carry better tips) were inadequate) didn't work... I know what works and what doesnt. These are expensive gimmicks. Wanna spend your hard earned money on stuff in this economy be my guest, but just trying to save people some dough. Be better off taking a CPR class and learning the Heimlich

That's great for you.
I have an AED in my car. They don't always work for everything so maybe I shouldn't even try to use that at all, you know, since you guys have other and better stuff in the ambulance.

 

[Tower43]

Can't remember the last time a 7 ET tube was choking on some potato or broccoli. Good info to know.
Did the Heimlich work on that ET tube? I bet it didn't.

7.0 is the "gold standard" for size comparison of the "average" human in most literature. Despite most American adults actually being 8.0s. So it's used in testing as a comparison instead of real people (because you know, trying to choke live people is you know, wrong) to demonstrate effectiveness.
I mean when my medic program was demonstrating suction, and even when we do coned with difficult airway, we use things like tapioca pudding, chicken and rice soup, etc. We demonstrated that the "standard" yankhauer catheter, which was designed for surgical field use, was inadequate to clear airways. The lumen was too narrow and too easily occluded by foreign objects. Works great on liquid no more viscous than blood.... past that, its trash, thats how we convinced the bean counters to switch to ducanto catheters.... and even those aren't the best, sometimes youve gotta go wide open with the tubing, it just is what it is.

 

[Tower43]

That's great for you.
I have an AED in my car. They don't always work for everything so maybe I shouldn't even try to use that at all, you know, since you guys have other and better stuff in the ambulance.

yea but an AED is automated, it detects shockable vs non-shockable rythtms. Guess what, even my fancy 30K monitor that shocks people? can't bring back the non-shockable stuff either. Know what gets most people back in out of hospital cardiac arrest? Fast CPR. (Mind you I review all of MoCo's Codes annually, Review the science, help with updating state protocol on it and sit on the state OHCA protocol review committee..... so I kinda stay involved in cardiac arrests... )

 

[Tower43]

Your everyday soccer mom isn't taking an ambu bag class. Those aren't their protocols.


.

arguably, they prolly should, hell we should include ambu bag use in high school for every one. Hell it should be taught OVER administering narcan.... it would save more lives. Ive been to countless scenes where bystanders and LE have given narcan and been like "I dont know why he/she wont wake up, i thought it was an overdose" but it was something else, where the BVM would have helped with breathing until ems got there.
That being said, EMS really needs to practice more on BVMs too, it is and it isn't a simple skill. It requires practice to master and too many people just push it off because it's NOT a sexy skill. I am sure there are skills in your job as LE that your fellow officers allow to "perish" because they aren't "sexy" or "cool" happens all the time.

 

[smokey]

EMS isnt going to stand there either, not only do we have training, we have suction devices (active suction not a plunger for your face that doesnt work), but advanced providers who would be coming too also have tubes, bougies, and megill forceps. Been doing this shit for 18 years, I have a bit of a clue. Hell I sat there picking pieces of saliva soaked bread out of a special needs individuals' throat with megill's to clear his throat because out (then suction catheters, now we carry better tips) were inadequate) didn't work... I know what works and what doesnt. These are expensive gimmicks. Wanna spend your hard earned money on stuff in this economy be my guest, but just trying to save people some dough. Be better off taking a CPR class and learning the Heimlich

Is something like the lifevac good for a 9 month old, or stil with traditional face down back compressions? Asking as a dad of a 9 month old that's experimenting with baby led weaning stuff.

 

[Tower43]

Is something like the lifevac good for a 9 month old, or stil with traditional face down back compressions? Asking as a dad of a 9 month old that's experimenting with baby led weaning stuff.

Traditional backblow usually works, that's why it's been around and still works. We DO have manual suction devices on the ems units that have been FDA approved but in training I have not personally had great success on pediatric with the manual devices. Typically if there is still an obstruction when I get there I am going directly to powered suction, and sometimes direct larygnoscopy and megills. I have been the ALS provider when the BLS providers have had success with backblows prior to my arrival.
(note lifevac is fda registered, not approved)
Laerdal V-Vac Manual Suction EMS uses FDA Approved

I have used the back blow on my own children with success, and yes it was scary with that instance even as a trained, experienced providers as well... it hits different as your own kid.

 

[dblas]

That's great for you.
I have an AED in my car. They don't always work for everything so maybe I shouldn't even try to use that at all, you know, since you guys have other and better stuff in the ambulance.

AED to the device shown is an apples to oranges comparison. Common man you can do better.

 

[Blaster229]

AED to the device shown is an apples to oranges comparison. Common man you can do better.

Same thing. An AED won't always work. You don't know that until you try it and it tells you.
This thing may or may not work. You don't know until you try it.
Why deny someone that opportunity?

 

[teratos]

I’m whipping out the Microtech and doing a trach.

Go big, or go home.

 

[Tower43]

I’m whipping out the Microtech and doing a trach.

Go big, or go home.

not the pen knife and bic pen?

 

[outrider58]

I’m whipping out the Microtech and doing a trach.

Go big, or go home.

I sharpened a popsicle stick on the sidewalk and did one. Used a MacDonald's (plastic) straw for the airway...

 

[Mule]

For anyone looking to purchase kits, North American Rescue is having a St. Patrick's Day sale until Midnight.

St. Patrick's Day 2024 Flash Sale | North American Rescue

St. Patrick's Day 2024 Flash Sale

www.narescue.com

$45
Loksak O'Gold

CAT Tourniquet
NAR Compressed Gauze
4" Flat Elastic Wrap (think thicker, sturdier ace bandage with velcro)
4 pairs of Gloves
Gecko Grip Multipurpose Flat Tape (6 15"x2" strips of duct tape, made by T-REX and flat packed by NAR)
LOKSAK waterproof pouch (can be separated into two halves and used in conjunction with the Tape to make a field-expedient chest seal)

Non-trauma items:
Chafing ointment
Minor Care Bandages kit ("band-aids")
2" OD Green Medical Patch


$60
Micro First Aid Kit (M-FAK)

CAT Tourniquet
NAR Compressed Gauze
NAR Emergency Trauma Dressing (ETD), 4"
HyFin Vent Compact Chest Seals Twin Pack (Comes with 2 seals, allowing you to patch entrance and exit holes for one wound)
4 pairs of Gloves
2" OD Green Medical Patch
OD Green Nylon Clamshell MOLLE Pouch



$100
Tactical Operator Response Kit (TORK)

CAT Tourniquet
QuickClot Combat Gauze, Z Folded
NAR Compressed Gauze
NAR Emergency Trauma Dressing (ETD), 6"
HyFin Vent Compact Chest Seals Twin Pack (Comes with 2 seals, allowing you to patch entrance and exit holes for one wound [or, multiple wounds in the same location])
Triangular Bandage
4 pairs of Gloves
2" OD Green Medical Patch
OD Green Nylon Clamshell MOLLE Pouch

 

[Docster]

Same thing. An AED won't always work. You don't know that until you try it and it tells you.
This thing may or may not work. You don't know until you try it.
Why deny someone that opportunity?

Agree. As well I think some training on any new piece of equipment is paramount

 

[teratos]

I sharpened a popsicle stick on the sidewalk and did one. Used a MacDonald's (plastic) straw for the airway...

F’ing legend.

 

[Tower43]

For those considering that lifevac trash.... consumer reports are generally NEGATIVE (you can look em up yourself) and also;

https://www.consumerreports.org/bab...OaZwRiK6kVGCxCaF_sWtWbvyRByikXTqBV_4n3ZYIFAew