Two Squib’s in one batch

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  • ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,591
    God's Country
    Today I was utterly shocked when I had my very first squib. I was sighting in a LPVO scope on my Ruger PC Carbine at AAFG with a friend. Things were going smoothly, but after shooting 9 rounds I had the squib. I had no way of getting the projectile from the barrel, so I figured I would fire off a few rounds with my Sub2K.

    Well about 12 rounds later I had my second squib. WTF?!?

    I was pissed at myself and for safety reasons I packed up my stuff and shot a few of my friends rifles until the range was called cold.


    When I got home, I was able to tap the projectile from the Sub2k with moderate effort. But I was unable to remove the projectile from the PC Carbine and shattered my dowel rod, leaving a large splintered section wedged between the tip of the projectile and the barrel. Not having any way to pound it out from the front with the splintered dowel in the way, I ended up drilling a hole into the projectile from the rear and using a screw extractor attached to a makeshift slide hammer to pull it out from the back.

    31de82bc17ff57975879fb9d432d1619.jpg



    c6536959bb78eb4efb0cbbe2712fd3e8.jpg


    From the looks of the case, it didn’t expand at all, and the primer just blew across the outside. I’ve never experienced a squib before but it sure looks like there was no charge whatsoever.

    When deciding what to pack this morning I grabbed a bucket of 480 9mm rounds I had loaded in June 2020. You know, when cities were burning and primers were selling for .30 ea. I cranked out thousands of rounds over that summer.

    This particular batch was made with Unique, I recall at the time I couldn’t find any if my go to Longshot. According to my logs I made 3 boxes of 250 rounds and a few days later 2 buckets of 480. I’ve since used the 3 smaller boxes without incident, I still have the other bucket of 480 in the safe.

    These were all loaded on my Hornady auto press. My usual practice is to test every charge for the first 10, on the initial setup. Then one in 25 for the next 100 or if I take a break, 1 per 50 from then on. So I’m a bit surprised that I found 2 squibs in 21 rounds fired earlier today.


    Now the question is this: Is there any reasonable way to weigh the loaded cartridges to sort out any other possible uncharged loads? Or do I just suck it up and buy a Dillon to ease the pain of pulling apart close to 1000 rounds?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    50,085
    Ouch! I had to pull about 500 rounds of 9mm that I loaded too weak. It's a grind. I've had two squibs since I started reloading. One was a 300 blk sub and the other was a 9mm.
     

    rickyp

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 13, 2009
    2,051
    All cases will be different in weight. The brass and bullets are never exactly identical. The issue with fast bur pistol powder the different between a too light load and a normal load could easily fall with in the normal weight diffrence.
    But if there isn’t any powder in the case it could show up. I would weigh a bunch of cases and bullets get the average then add your load weight. Then weight the cases if any is way off pull them.
    if you have the means pull them all
     

    MaxVO2

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    All cases will be different in weight. The brass and bullets are never exactly identical. The issue with fast bur pistol powder the different between a too light load and a normal load could easily fall with in the normal weight diffrence.
    But if there isn’t any powder in the case it could show up. I would weigh a bunch of cases and bullets get the average then add your load weight. Then weight the cases if any is way off pull them.
    if you have the means pull them all

    ****Don't have much to add other than if you have the means pull them all, and do some checking to see why this may have happened. If you have more than one scale, check them for consistency and accuracy, as well as your other measurement tools to make sure something is not "off".

    Squibs are potentially very dangerous situations where a rapid string of fire, and some bad luck with a squib and you could blow up your gun and cause yourself and others severe injury.

    That was really creative to use a screw extractor on the squib you couldn't remove with the dowel. I have had squibs on C&R firearms before with old surplus ammo from WW2 - but was lucky enough I realized what had happened and got the squib out using the dowel method.

    Good luck, and thanks for posting the pic - any idea of how many times that brass has been reloaded?
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    50,085
    All cases will be different in weight. The brass and bullets are never exactly identical. The issue with fast bur pistol powder the different between a too light load and a normal load could easily fall with in the normal weight diffrence.
    But if there isn’t any powder in the case it could show up. I would weigh a bunch of cases and bullets get the average then add your load weight. Then weight the cases if any is way off pull them.
    if you have the means pull them all
    I've tried this in other instances and it was very undiscernable and took longer than to pull and dump. In my case, they were like head stamps (same brand, different years).
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,591
    God's Country
    ****Don't have much to add other than if you have the means pull them all, and do some checking to see why this may have happened. If you have more than one scale, check them for consistency and accuracy, as well as your other measurement tools to make sure something is not "off".

    Squibs are potentially very dangerous situations where a rapid string of fire, and some bad luck with a squib and you could blow up your gun and cause yourself and others severe injury.

    That was really creative to use a screw extractor on the squib you couldn't remove with the dowel. I have had squibs on C&R firearms before with old surplus ammo from WW2 - but was lucky enough I realized what had happened and got the squib out using the dowel method.

    Good luck, and thanks for posting the pic - any idea of how many times that brass has been reloaded?

    No, I’ve saved many of my own fresh 9mm when I can but I’m sure I’ve got mixed range pickup in there too.


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    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,591
    God's Country
    Sorry Tool. There’s good day on the range and bad. For this exact reason, I run a powder check on my Dillon.

    You should never have any doubts about the ammo you've loaded. If you do, pull them and redo them.

    I've tried this in other instances and it was very undiscernable and took longer than to pull and dump. In my case, they were like head stamps (same brand, different years).

    Looks like I’ll be getting intimate with the Franklyn Arsenal puller.


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    holesonpaper

    Active Member
    Mar 10, 2017
    930
    Hazzard county
    When I first got into reloading, I was petrified of squibs. On one of my first batches, I loaded 400 9mm and after I got done, questioned myself and thought I screwed something up. I weighed all 400 and lined up and tore apart the lightest 40. All had powder but I leaned then that brass varied significantly. From that moment forward, I run a powder check.
     

    guzma393

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2020
    751
    Severn, MD
    Now the question is this: Is there any reasonable way to weigh the loaded cartridges to sort out any other possible uncharged loads? Or do I just suck it up and buy a Dillon to ease the pain of pulling apart close to 1000 rounds?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Not with 9mm, as I found the variances for brass to be very wide to the point that false positives can occur.
    I would just quarantine that batch, and "remanufacture" batches of 50 or 100 at a time to take the edge off.
    Had to pull 400 rounds of cast 300 blackout supers because i was pushing them too fast, causing leading and poor inaccuracy.
    Remanufactured them to a more reduced load and they recently started to cycle too weak for my 300 blk AR :whack:
    Now I got a bunch of weak 300 blk loads, and a sudden desire to buy a 300 blk bolt gun.
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,431
    SOMD
    I have had a squib with manufactured ammo too along a couple times with reloads. I found out that for me the prudent thing to do is load midrange of the min/max powder loads. I did narrow down my squib issue to a digital scale. I purchased a set of calibration weights from .5 grain to 150 grain. When I checked the digital scale, I found it was off which made me load lower than the minimum powder load. So, I tossed out the digital scale and went back to my balance beam scale. A couple years back I purchased an RCBS digital scale which has been right on based on my calibration weights. I still check the scale with the calibration weights so far so good.
     

    Neutron

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2014
    1,540
    severna park
    Contrary to what others are saying, I would not pull 1000 rounds because you "might" have a squib round somewhere in the batch. You should always pay attention every time you pull the trigger keeping an ear out and feeling for a squib round. Especially with hand loads but also with factory ammo. If you pull the 1000 rounds and reload them who's to say it couldn't happen again?
     

    rickyp

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 13, 2009
    2,051
    Contrary to what others are saying, I would not pull 1000 rounds because you "might" have a squib round somewhere in the batch. You should always pay attention every time you pull the trigger keeping an ear out and feeling for a squib round. Especially with hand loads but also with factory ammo. If you pull the 1000 rounds and reload them who's to say it couldn't happen again?
    If there is a question of safety one should 100% pull every round.
    1 problem with making large batches at a time is if you made a mistake you have to pull them all apart. I personally do not reload much more then I will use in one or 2 range session.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,731
    Not Far Enough from the City
    My first thought with an uncharged case in a batch as the cause of a squib?

    Is there ANY possibility....however remote it may be or however remote it may seem....of a double charged or even an overcharged case in that same batch?
     

    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,431
    SOMD
    If there is a question of safety one should 100% pull every round.
    1 problem with making large batches at a time is if you made a mistake you have to pull them all apart. I personally do not reload much more then I will use in one or 2 range session.
    I have another suggestion rather than pull 1k rounds I would weigh each round. I would pull one round measure the powder case and head. If there any suspect rounds that do not meet the load then pull them.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    50,085
    I've pulled a great many cartridges. I have been the benefactor of others hand loads(usually a decedent's) and I never shoot other's hand loads, so I pull them all. I dump the powder and reuse the pulled and primed case. If you have a collet puller, this makes the task bearable. It's almost as fast as swaging and it is something you can do with the TV on.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,591
    God's Country
    I've pulled a great many cartridges. I have been the benefactor of others hand loads(usually a decedent's) and I never shoot other's hand loads, so I pull them all. I dump the powder and reuse the pulled and primed case. If you have a collet puller, this makes the task bearable. It's almost as fast as swaging and it is something you can do with the TV on.

    They are pretty cheap so I just ordered one.

    Trying to decide if it makes sense to remove the crimp die on my progressive press to make space for a powder cop?


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    About 8 months ago I had a 9mm squib that I loaded on a Dillon XL750 with a powder check.
    I mounted a flexible LED over my bullet seating die and I now reload standing up. I get a visual inside the case for every round before adding the projectile. Can I tell if the charge is perfect? No. Can I tell if there is no powder or a dangerous overcharge? Absolutely.
     

    4g64loser

    Bad influence
    Jan 18, 2007
    6,556
    maryland
    About 8 months ago I had a 9mm squib that I loaded on a Dillon XL750 with a powder check.
    I mounted a flexible LED over my bullet seating die and I now reload standing up. I get a visual inside the case for every round before adding the projectile. Can I tell if the charge is perfect? No. Can I tell if there is no powder or a dangerous overcharge? Absolutely.
    This. I don't use a powder check but I can see I to the case while i am placing the bullet in the flared case mouth.

    For small batch pistol stuff, like my 38 shot loads or wadcutters for my 38spl 1911, I manually charge the cases and visually inspect prior to moving onward to seating payload/projectile.

    For precision rifle work, I load all single stage and charges are all weighed. I then inspect with a light when all cases in a tray are charged.
     

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