2A and the Truth

[Skipjacks]

I think I found an image of our friend here. I was totally wrong, he's 100% legit. Look at all those merit badges!

 

[Sgt. Psycho]

Ahh someone thinks they know math... I enlisted in 94 delayed entry (1), re-up 98 (2), re-up 03 (3), ETS.. Federal Employee (4)... anybody else want to try counting.. each time you have to take an oath. Now.. let’s talk about the oaths everyone else took... let’s start with those “Oath Keepers” ... I’m pretty sure no natural citizens have taken the oath of citizenship.. I’ll wait.. Meanwhile, I’m actually looking at joining the Navy Reserves, (active duty time minus current age) so Ill be taking that oath again.. anyone to pointlessly argue that?
I’m a Master Mason too anyone want to question that as well?

Lets talk about how you completely ignored the challenge to your "18F" claim.

 

[NewTwo]

Classic fuddlore. Guns for me and not for thee.

 

[SUMB44]

"Meanwhile, I’m actually looking at joining the Navy Reserves..."

He's too old for the USNR, they wouldn't have him.

 

[Huckleberry]

But you're an 18F? You don't miss your old Group? The old Team?

Maryland ARNG has the 20th GP right north of Baltimore at the Gunpowder MR just looking for guys like you. Probably a big beaucoup bonus. Or is that beaucoupe to you?

Funny how you keep skipping over you being a real live Snake Eater?

 

[ABN18F]

Hmm did I threaten anyone on this board? Nope, did I call out any personal attacks to race creed or religion? Nope, Did I say people should turn in their guns? Nope..

What I did do.. I posted a concern, and an opinion. I believe America isn’t about being Black, White, Republican or Democrat, American is an ideology comprised of forward thinking beings, doers, and pioneers, an everlasting spirit of true grit and integrity.

I don’t know about the rest of you, I don’t know your pasts, but that’s what being an American means to me. I’ve been to other countries where people see that American flag on our uniform and burst into tears. Hell, I shed tears every time the National Anthem is played, and yes I do stand at attention, cause I have friends that died for America and I fight for America.

You guys can hate me, call me what ever you want,,but the truth remains, if I am called to service to fight for you I will without mental reservation. If anyone called upon me for help, I will be there to help within the limits of my ability. I will fight for every American until the arthritis in my shoulders denies my ability to lift my rifle.

Can anyone else say the same? Or is your patriotism limited to those who share your color, political affiliation, religious beliefs?

 

[ABN18F]

Lol repoint bricks.. no, but I can use this common gavel to shape..that living stone.

 

[Skipjacks]

This is a paid troll here to start trouble. I'm sure of it.

The argument isn't meant to make sense. It is meant to irritate everyone.

 

[Sgt. Psycho]

But you're an 18F? You don't miss your old Group? The old Team?

Maryland ARNG has the 20th GP right north of Baltimore at the Gunpowder MR just looking for guys like you. Probably a big beaucoup bonus. Or is that beaucoupe to you?

Funny how you keep skipping over you being a real live Snake Eater?

Yep. Too bad we can't throat punch people on the internet.

 

[JoeRinMD]

...The point can be argued whether or not the 2A meant everyone. ...

I tried to stay away from this dumpster fire of thread, but so far no one has brought up the Heller case. The issue, simply stated, is no longer in question. The OP doesn't need to go all the way back to the Federalist Papers. It became a matter of settled law in 2008 when the Supreme Court issued its decsision in the case of the District of Columbia vs Heller. In case he's unaware, Judge Scalia wrote the majority opinion in that decision and settled the question of a collective vs. individual right. Summarizing...the Heller decision "was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court ruling that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, unconnected with service in a militia, for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home..."

(1) The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment's prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause's text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.
(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court's interpretation of the operative clause. The "militia" comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens' militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens' militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.​

Full text here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

JoeR

 

[Occam]

did I call out any personal attacks to race creed or religion?

You led with a pre-emptive swing at your audience, calling them racists.

Nope, Did I say people should turn in their guns? Nope..

True. You did worse - you said they shouldn't be allowed to have them in the first place.

What I did do.. I posted a concern, and an opinion.

You came to a forum that's all about one of the liberties protected by the Bill of Rights, and said that it's not actually protected by the Bill of Rights. And you've proceeded to say that most people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves, but that you should have that yourself, of course. Just not other people.

I believe America isn’t about being Black, White, Republican or Democrat, American is an ideology comprised of forward thinking beings, doers, and pioneers, an everlasting spirit of true grit and integrity.

Quit trying to change the subject with a bunch of vapid virtue signaling. You've betrayed your fundamental ignorance of basic constitutional history, and have doubled down on that by not replying even once to the substance of that when people have taken time to educate you. That's contempt for those you're talking to, piled on top of calling them racists right out of the gate.

I don’t know about the rest of you ... I have friends that died for America and I fight for America.

Just not for the Constitution that makes it the greatest country in human history. Because the Constitution makes you feel uncomfortable when it applies to the peasantry.

the truth remains

Then why not lead off with the truth, or express some respect for those who have straightened you out on your fundamental misunderstanding of that to which you've sworn loyalty?

if I am called to service to fight for you

Other than in defense of that whole pesky Bill of Rights thing. On that, you turn your back.

Can anyone else say the same? Or is your patriotism limited to those who share your color, political affiliation, religious beliefs?

Listen up, Lt. Strawman: your directly expressed contempt for the people you're talking to - something you lead off with and have only reinforced - isn't going to be magically hidden behind a display of stick-on piety about patriotism. If you WERE a patriot, you'd dedicate the TEN MINUTES it takes to educate yourself about the Bill of Rights. Scrambling to change the topic doesn't make your baked-in statist, tyrannical instincts any less obvious. You're actually proud of the superiority you feel over others. You're wearing it on your sleeve. If we stipulate for even a moment that you're not simply a time wasting troll, we have to accept you as you've described your vision of yourself and your relationship to your fellow citizens. You, and that relationship, are very bad news.

Why do you keep getting more comments like that? Because you won't even engage on the subject matter. You're tap dancing and weaseling around that, and trying to wrap yourself in a flag that stands for something - if we take you seriously - that you profoundly fail to understand.

 

[ABN18F]

This is a paid troll here to start trouble. I'm sure of it.

The argument isn't meant to make sense. It is meant to irritate everyone.

Theres nothing pre-written dude.. no copying of text written by others, and no I’m not some internet troll.. no point in any of that... You have but a single point here. You and some others take issue that I don’t believe the 2A was meant for everyone. That’s cool, people have varying beliefs. What you can’t argue, is the reason members of this board chose a destructive path of insults and other, simply cause I have an opinion different from theirs...

 

[Occam]

Theres nothing pre-written dude.. no copying of text written by others, and no I’m not some internet troll.. no point in any of that... You have but a single point here. You and some others take issue that I don’t believe the 2A was meant for everyone. That’s cool, people have varying beliefs. What you can’t argue, is the reason members of this board chose a destructive path of insults and other, simply cause I have an opinion different from theirs...

OK, I'll play. Provide a single lucid reason that you think the people who wrote, debated, and ratified the Second Amendment were LYING when they said it applied to everyone in the country. Because they did say that. Repeatedly. Amongst themselves, and to the people who needed to vote on ratifying the Bill of Rights. You don't have a "different opinion," you are asserting an alternate reality where the people who WROTE THE 2A AND TOLD YOU WHY THEY DID AND WHAT IT MEANS didn't do exactly that.

You're not being insulted. You're being called out for the troll you are. The truth is never an insult.

 

[JoeRinMD]

Theres nothing pre-written dude.. no copying of text written by others, and no I’m not some internet troll.. no point in any of that... You have but a single point here. You and some others take issue that I don’t believe the 2A was meant for everyone. That’s cool, people have varying beliefs. What you can’t argue, is the reason members of this board chose a destructive path of insults and other, simply cause I have an opinion different from theirs...

We're back to the point stated earlier that you can believe the earth is flat, but that doesn't make it so. And here, you can believe the 2nd Amendment isn't for everyone, but the SCOTUS settled it for us in 2008. The right to keep and bear arms an individual right FOR EVERYONE.

JoeR

 

[Bullfrog]

I can see your point in interpreting that way. At the time 2A was written, we had just come out of a war. But, that war wasn’t against our Govt trying to control people like the King and Queen. The Revolutionary war was against a country that the American colonies believed had nothing to do with their establishment.
.

You have zero understanding about history during this time period.

But, that war wasn’t against our Govt trying to control people like the King and Queen

Yes, it was. The King of England was the head of state of the ('our') government. The revolutionary war (hint... google the meaning of revolution), was a rebellion against the existing government, which in the colonists eyes had become tyrannical.

The Revolutionary war was against a country that the American colonies believed had nothing to do with their establishment.

Completely divorced from reality. There was no debate about whether England had established the colonies... and England wasn't 'another country'.

The argument was that it had become a tyrannical government, lacking representation and had lost the moral authority to rule over them. The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to prevent the newly established government from becoming just as bad as the one they had thrown off... either by deterrence, or if necessary by force; which is why the means and ability to use force were placed in the hands of the people. All of this is recorded in the contemporary writings of the people who put the bill of rights in place.

 

[BigRick]

 

[budman93]

OK, I'll play. Provide a single lucid reason that you think the people who wrote, debated, and ratified the Second Amendment were LYING when they said it applied to everyone in the country. Because they did say that. Repeatedly. Amongst themselves, and to the people who needed to vote on ratifying the Bill of Rights. You don't have a "different opinion," you are asserting an alternate reality where the people who WROTE THE 2A AND TOLD YOU WHY THEY DID AND WHAT IT MEANS didn't do exactly that.

You're not being insulted. You're being called out for the troll you are. The truth is never an insult.

Exactly this. There is no difference in interpretation. The founders intentions are well documented. Dont try to redefine the 2nd amendment to mean what you want. Admit that your position is that it is wrong.

 

[Sgt. Psycho]

Theres nothing pre-written dude.. no copying of text written by others, and no I’m not some internet troll.. no point in any of that... You have but a single point here. You and some others take issue that I don’t believe the 2A was meant for everyone. That’s cool, people have varying beliefs. What you can’t argue, is the reason members of this board chose a destructive path of insults and other, simply cause I have an opinion different from theirs...

Two of us have now challenged you on your 18F claim. You think that claim is going to lend some authority to your opinion of the 2A, yet you repeatedly ignore every opportunity, even in a private PM, to back it up.

Your silence speaks volumes. You are a fraud. The next time you want to use stolen valor to back up your bullsh*t, at least be smart enough to do it on a forum where the membership cannot vet you and call you out on it.

Here is a good forum where you should feel right at home:

http://basketmakers.com/a/forum/forum.htm

 

[Chat-Bot]

 

[Bullfrog]

It has nothing to do with feeding the troll.

It is important that his lies and revisionist history are exposed and corrected with the truth, for the sake of anyone else who stumbles across this thread.