HQL Requirement Designed for Future Confiscation

[Bigfoot21075]

Maryland has a database called Mguns available to law enforcement. If you have purchased any regulated gun in the state since the late 60s they know what you have.

(NO such thing)

 

[mrgnstrn]

To the OP, while I see your point, it seems like a horribly inefficient way to catalog all the un-registered handguns.
They only need 1 (one) serial to process your HQL. so they'd only get one data point. and not any of the others you don't put on the form.

While I think the whole HQL thing is a sham, I think the reason for the "put in a serial here" is to deal with the issue of grandfathering.
If the state wishes to grandfather someone, the person has to prove that they are grandfather-able....i.e., already have a gun. and the only way to prove they are a handgun owner...is with a serial of a handgun.

clumsy, to be sure, but at least current handgun owners don't have to retrain....

-m

 

[fred333]

MSP is NOT plotting in some secret room at 1201 on how to confiscate firearms from honest citizens. It has NO desire to deny a citizen their rights. It is a very political organization....

I couldn't agree more, but here's the thing.... MSP isn't just a political organization, they (like the FOP) are a political organization with a progressive bent, which means they view anything done in pursuit of a priori "social justice" to trump the law.
Remember, for leftists, there's no bridge too long, no river too deep nor law too meaningful to break in pursuit of the [utopian] goal of social justice. The end, as leftist history's proven, ALWAYS justifies the means.

 

[fred333]

Trolling is saying that 130 bucks in fees over 10 years is too much money to pay. That's less than the ammo I shot off last time I had a few hours to spare. You can still do private sales, but that's the only way you can buy a handgun in any state without dealing with brady bill nonsense and a form 4473. So, you're creating your own dystopia in your mind. If you have seen how stupid people are in MD, you wouldn't care that someone so young and inexperienced that they don't even own a handgun in 2013 would have to have one afternoon of training. I still see people do dumb things like pick up unloaded guns, and then proceed to load them before they start playing with them carelessly in MD. When you're surrounded by libtards, there's always a price to pay.

Would you say the same re a poll tax?
Look, terms like "fees" and "permits" should never occur in tandem with a [constitutionally guaranteed] civil right. Plain and simple.

 

[knastera]

Would you say the same re a poll tax?

Look, terms like "fees" and "permits" should never occur in tandem with a [constitutionally guaranteed] civil right. Plain and simple.

The poll tax is the analogy I use when opposing the fees involved in getting an HQL. The Fifteenth Amendment made the poll tax unconstitutional because it hindered the right of a portion of the populous to vote, at the time, newly freed slaves that did not have the funds to pay the tax. The HQL administrative fees and the lack of police provided free fingerprinting are completely analogous to the poll tax. They hinder law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights under the Second Amendment. I'm an engineer and the money to get an HQL didn't hinder me, but what about the 22 year old who is making $10/hr who, in addition to getting the money together for an entry level handgun and some ammo, now has to shell out $200 to get an HQL. That is a serious hindrance.


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[HordesOfKailas]

The poll tax is the analogy I use when opposing the fees involved in getting an HQL. The Fifteenth Amendment made the poll tax unconstitutional because it hindered the right of a portion of the populous to vote, at the time, newly freed slaves that did not have the funds to pay the tax. The HQL administrative fees and the lack of police provided free fingerprinting are completely analogous to the poll tax. They hinder law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights under the Second Amendment. I'm an engineer and the money to get an HQL didn't hinder me, but what about the 22 year old who is making $10/hr who, in addition to getting the money together for an entry level handgun and some ammo, now has to shell out $200 to get an HQL. That is a serious hindrance.


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Or the older person on a limited or fixed income. There're almost literally an endless number of arguments against the HQL.

 

[knastera]

Or the older person on a limited or fixed income. There're almost literally an endless number of arguments against the HQL.

Then there is the secondary argument, what demonstrable impact on public safety has the HQL had in four years of existence? Has the murder rate in Baltimore city gone down or even plateaued? It is an unconstitutional, ineffective, costly law.


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[janklow]

MSP is NOT plotting in some secret room at 1201 on how to confiscate firearms from honest citizens. It has NO desire to deny a citizen their rights. It is a very political organization

seems... contradictory.

 

[Rab1515]

. If you have seen how stupid people are in MD, you wouldn't care that someone so young and inexperienced that they don't even own a handgun in 2013 would have to have one afternoon of training.

Perhaps you would feel differently if only people over a arbitrary age had to pay for a license, because old people have a tenancy to go senile. Some of use never had the opportunity to get an exception from sb281.

 

[chipd]

They shouldn't be allowed to charge a fee. but, at 13 dollars a year, it is the smallest government fee I have ever had to pay. If you can't afford 13 dollars a year, you can't afford firearms.

 

[Raineman]

They shouldn't be allowed to charge a fee. but, at 13 dollars a year, it is the smallest government fee I have ever had to pay. If you can't afford 13 dollars a year, you can't afford firearms.

What fee is $13? The HQL process sure as hell isn't.

 

[DC-W]

They shouldn't be allowed to charge a fee. but, at 13 dollars a year, it is the smallest government fee I have ever had to pay. If you can't afford 13 dollars a year, you can't afford firearms.

MD is one of only a few states that restrict the purchase of handguns like this and the only state with a live fire component as part of required training. In the rest of the country, not only is training NOT required to be able to purchase a handgun, but neither are added fees or any kind of licensing. Handguns can be exchanged freely between two non-prohibited parties as well.

Suggesting that if one cannot afford X, they cannot own guns is beyond elitist and smacks of the same attitude that brought about poll taxes. It's just not right.

The HQL is a barrier to many from buying, as Scalia in Heller wrote, "the quintessential self-defense weapon." $50 to the state, $50-$75 for prints, and $20-$100 for training, plus transportation to and scheduling for an instructor/range time may not sound like much to many of us, but it is to many, many others. Not to mention that this process usually takes a month or so to complete.

The goal of the HQL was never public safety -- it's a deliberate limitation on how many Marylanders can acquire handguns. The state arbitrarily chose $50 for the card. I saw that deliberation on the house floor myself. The card costs the state less than half that to produce.

 

[ironpony]

MD is one of only a few states that restrict the purchase of handguns like this and the only state with a live fire component as part of required training. In the rest of the country, not only is training NOT required to be able to purchase a handgun, but neither are added fees or any kind of licensing. Handguns can be exchanged freely between two non-prohibited parties as well.

Suggesting that if one cannot afford X, they cannot own guns is beyond elitist and smacks of the same attitude that brought about poll taxes. It's just not right.

The HQL is a barrier to many from buying, as Scalia in Heller wrote, "the quintessential self-defense weapon." $50 to the state, $50-$75 for prints, and $20-$100 for training, plus transportation to and scheduling for an instructor/range time may not sound like much to many of us, but it is to many, many others. Not to mention that this process usually takes a month or so to complete.

The goal of the HQL was never public safety -- it's a deliberate limitation on how many Marylanders can acquire handguns. The state arbitrarily chose $50 for the card. I saw that deliberation on the house floor myself. The card costs the state less than half that to produce.

Thanks for throwing that out there, I could not have done it that politely.

 

[chipd]

i paid 75 for the HQL, 55 for prints.. 0 dollars for collector status. for a grand total of 130 dollars. good for ten years. that's 13 dollars a year.

 

[eruby]

i paid 75 for the HQL, 55 for prints.. 0 dollars for collector status. for a grand total of 130 dollars. good for ten years. that's 13 dollars a year.

Yay you!

 

[chipd]

I never said the HQL was moral, or I liked it. But I can't tell you how pathetic I would feel if I said no more handguns for me over 13 dollars a year. that can't even get you two pit beef sandwiches any more.

 

[Rambler]

The poll tax is the analogy I use when opposing the fees involved in getting an HQL. The Fifteenth Amendment made the poll tax unconstitutional because it hindered the right of a portion of the populous to vote, at the time, newly freed slaves that did not have the funds to pay the tax. The HQL administrative fees and the lack of police provided free fingerprinting are completely analogous to the poll tax. They hinder law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights under the Second Amendment. I'm an engineer and the money to get an HQL didn't hinder me, but what about the 22 year old who is making $10/hr who, in addition to getting the money together for an entry level handgun and some ammo, now has to shell out $200 to get an HQL. That is a serious hindrance.


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This sort of thing has always been the MO of the anti Second Amendment crowd.
The amount being a hindrance is precisely what was behind the "tax stamp" fee in the NFA. ($200 in 1934 is equivalent to $3,658.06 now.)

 

[HordesOfKailas]

Trolling is saying that 130 bucks in fees over 10 years is too much money to pay. That's less than the ammo I shot off last time I had a few hours to spare. You can still do private sales, but that's the only way you can buy a handgun in any state without dealing with brady bill nonsense and a form 4473. So, you're creating your own dystopia in your mind. If you have seen how stupid people are in MD, you wouldn't care that someone so young and inexperienced that they don't even own a handgun in 2013 would have to have one afternoon of training. I still see people do dumb things like pick up unloaded guns, and then proceed to load them before they start playing with them carelessly in MD. When you're surrounded by libtards, there's always a price to pay.

Well consider me young and inexperienced then. I turned 21 November of 13, so handguns sans HQL were impossible for me. And I did hunter sadety in lieu of handgun training. Then I bought a handgun before I ever even fired one! Scared yet? Your argument is baseless. The HQL guarantees neither competence nor responsible behavior. Neither age nor training are needed to exercise a constitutional right. You should stop buying the lies.

 

[knastera]

This sort of thing has always been the MO of the anti Second Amendment crowd.

The amount being a hindrance is precisely what was behind the "tax stamp" fee in the NFA. ($200 in 1934 is equivalent to $3,658.06 now.)

The $200 tax stamp is not only a hindrance to the person wanting to legally suppress a firearm, it is also a hindrance to public safety. The noise is an indoor range is so high, that I have to wear ear plugs and war muffs. What does that $200 go toward anyway?


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[Uncle Duke]

I never said the HQL was moral, or I liked it. But I can't tell you how pathetic I would feel if I said no more handguns for me over 13 dollars a year. that can't even get you two pit beef sandwiches any more.

And I can't tell you how pathetic I would "feel" if I didn't. Not that this is about "feel" to begin with. Not for me at least.

You have the right answer....for you. Fine and fair. Your's however, is not the only answer.