Is it worth the cash to buy big

[trickg]

Erwos - what's a 2-pass process? Are you talking about cleaning, decapping/sizing, trimming, primer pockets, and then going back to actually reload? If that's what you mean, that's how I handle 223, mainly because of what you were saying about primer pockets.

I have a Lee APP - I'm not sold on it. It's good for decapping in large quantities, but I picked up the primer pocket swaging setup, and I'm not completely sold on it - I've been cutting primer pocket crimps out with a light pass with a deburring tool in a drill mounted to the bench in a vise. Is it ideal? No - swagging is I'm sure a better way to do it, but I find I get more consistent results cutting them out with a deburring tool, and thus far it doesn't seem to be detrimental in any way.

MDRifles, the one "good" thing about reloading 9mm is that you may not get much cost savings from cheap bulk ammo, but you will get much better ammo for the same money IMO. There's also no shortage of reloadable brass - I have so much 9mm brass that I'm really not even picking it up at the range anymore, which is also good because if I come to a point where I need more 9mm brass, it's all over the place. Same thing with 223, and to a lesser degree, 308 - I have a pretty decent sized container of 308, and at the moment I don't even own a 308.

I started shooting 223 with just 100 rounds of M855 that I picked up for $100 during the worst of the shortage. Then I started diligently picking up 223 brass at the range. At this point I have thousands of pieces of 223 brass. Oftentimes I'm next to a couple of guys ripping 223 a couple of lanes away - I just simply ask, "Hey - are you guys reloading that? If not, do you mind if I police it up for you?" 3 out of 4 times they're happy to not have to deal with it. I've wound up with hundreds of pieces of once-fired 223 by doing that, but there is the brass processing to consider, which is a necessary time drain, and one of my least favorite tasks of reloading, but I tend to do brass processing in large batches.

 

[erwos]

Erwos - what's a 2-pass process? Are you talking about cleaning, decapping/sizing, trimming, primer pockets, and then going back to actually reload? If that's what you mean, that's how I handle 223, mainly because of what you were saying about primer pockets.

Yes. On my Mark7 Evo, I have two toolheads for 223 (and 300AAC, for that matter). The first one decaps, swages, size+trims, and then has a case mouth expander set to basically knock off any remaining inside burrs. All the brass gets a wash after that. The second toolhead does the loading in the usual fashion, very similar to pistol. This works exceedingly well. The downside is that it is horridly expensive because Dillon 1100 and Evo toolheads aren't cheap, and you're replicating a number of dies (including a couple expensive ones like the FW Arms decap and hold-down).

In THEORY, you could one-pass on the Evo by doing a trim+size on the priming station. This is generally considered to not be a best practice, though. Some people also do triple pass setups where it's prep->prime->load. Probably does work moderately better if you're doing huge volumes.

ETA: thanks for the kind words, guys, I've only learned this much because of other people and my own mistakes. And there have been PLENTY of mistakes.

 

[4g64loser]

Yes. On my Mark7 Evo, I have two toolheads for 223 (and 300AAC, for that matter). The first one decaps, swages, size+trims, and then has a case mouth expander set to basically knock off any remaining inside burrs. All the brass gets a wash after that. The second toolhead does the loading in the usual fashion, very similar to pistol. This works exceedingly well. The downside is that it is horridly expensive because Dillon 1100 and Evo toolheads aren't cheap, and you're replicating a number of dies (including a couple expensive ones like the FW Arms decap and hold-down).

In THEORY, you could one-pass on the Evo by doing a trim+size on the priming station. This is generally considered to not be a best practice, though. Some people also do triple pass setups where it's prep->prime->load. Probably does work moderately better if you're doing huge volumes.

ETA: thanks for the kind words, guys, I've only learned this much because of other people and my own mistakes. And there have been PLENTY of mistakes.

I know I'm in the extreme minority but I double pass on pistol brass as well as rifle. I case gauge them before priming (off press). Has cut my reject rate (use in open bolt guns only) to one or two per thousand. When primers went stupid, I started that. I also do my trimming on a giraud after conventional full length sizing. My buddy used the Dillon sizer trimmer system for his belt fed rifle ammo.

I prime off press because I got to help my reloading buddy fix the hole in the ceiling after he blew a mostly full primer tube through a light and up into the ceiling. Most say it can't happen on a Dillon but I saw and repaired the aftermath. No thanks.

 

[trickg]

ETA: thanks for the kind words, guys, I've only learned this much because of other people and my own mistakes. And there have been PLENTY of mistakes.

But that's because you're DOING IT and doing a lot of it. The best lessons a person can learn come from making and correcting their own mistakes. Making a mistake and then correcting it leads to a much higher level of understanding.

 

[erwos]

I know I'm in the extreme minority but I double pass on pistol brass as well as rifle. I case gauge them before priming (off press). Has cut my reject rate (use in open bolt guns only) to one or two per thousand. When primers went stupid, I started that. I also do my trimming on a giraud after conventional full length sizing. My buddy used the Dillon sizer trimmer system for his belt fed rifle ammo.

I don't necessarily think two pass is a bad idea for pistol, but I've never really I felt like it was necessary (outside of weird corner cases like 22 TCM). Most of my problems with pistol come from loading on a 650 and not having swage. If I ever land the cash for a Mark7 Genesys or similar, I don't think it would be as big a deal. Heck, buying a Sortinator and culling out crimped primer pockets would be a cheaper way of handling it.

 

[Harrys]

I have been a single stage one arm bandit loader for over 40 years. I have had several models and currently use a Hornady model. I have loaded 30/30, 45/70, 30/06, 5.62, 9mm, 40 calibers, .500 calibers, 375 calibers and others. For me it never has been about speed as a progressive press can give you.

 

[erwos]

I have been a single stage one arm bandit loader for over 40 years. I have had several models and currently use a Hornady model. I have loaded 30/30, 45/70, 30/06, 5.62, 9mm, 40 calibers, .500 calibers, 375 calibers and others. For me it never has been about speed as a progressive press can give you.

If you shoot enough, it has to be about speed. Or at least speed has to be a very important consideration. No one's doubting you can load a bunch of stuff on a single stage or turret.

 

[4g64loser]

I don't necessarily think two pass is a bad idea for pistol, but I've never really I felt like it was necessary (outside of weird corner cases like 22 TCM). Most of my problems with pistol come from loading on a 650 and not having swage. If I ever land the cash for a Mark7 Genesys or similar, I don't think it would be as big a deal. Heck, buying a Sortinator and culling out crimped primer pockets would be a cheaper way of handling it.

There isn't much crimped pistol brass in the stuff I've been getting and I see it during the gauging phase so it goes in a box. If someone i know wats to screw with it, the brass is already decapped and sized he can cut the crimps. If he's flush, I scrap them once I hit a couple gallons.

 

[spoon059]

Find a used progressive, then you do it however you want. I bought a used Hornady AP. For a lot of rounds I do a single task at a time, but can very quickly do that task at a higher volume. I'm just started processing 9mm, I'll probably load those progressively when I finally get some SPP.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

But that's because you're DOING IT and doing a lot of it. The best lessons a person can learn come from making and correcting their own mistakes. Making a mistake and then correcting it leads to a much higher level of understanding.

I read this and I think of the most vital lesson in firearms. That is safety.

When it comes to a person becoming a new reloader such as I am. It is always best to avoid situations like @4g64loser mentioned in the need to repair a ceiling hole. That hole, could have easily been a hole in a person or worse.

Same message while shooting or handling a firearm for any reason. Obey the rules of safety.

Every gun is loaded. Verify.

 

[atblis]

Don’t bother loading 9mm

Bullets are $80 per 1k
Primers are $70 per 1k
Powder is about $25 per 1k
So $175 per 1k assuming brass is free

You can buy decent 9mm for about $250 per 1k and not have to deal with a thing.

 

[MDRifles]

Hmmm, ok so I think where my mind is right now I defiantly need to do more research and check out the posts y’all mentioned in this thread. Regardless I am going hunting this fall and will be picking up my rifles and buying retail rounds for them first. Thinking back to when was regularly going to the range even when working 50+ hours I did use a lot of pistol rounds. I do like the idea of making my own quality ammo for a slights better price then the shelf. What do y’all think about buying used reloading equipment. If a Dillion 550 can be had for 500 or less I’m thinking I also would want a single stage or turret. I’ve watched a couple videos but the part that’s not shown as much is the prep which looks to be one of main contentions about reloading

 

[MDRifles]

Don’t bother loading 9mm

Bullets are $80 per 1k
Primers are $70 per 1k
Powder is about $25 per 1k
So $175 per 1k assuming brass is free

You can buy decent 9mm for about $250 per 1k and not have to deal with a thing.

What I was thinking the same, unless we go through another shortage the prices look ok right now. What about 45?

 

[atblis]

Biggest difference is cost of bullets. FMJ 230 gr looks to be about $150 per 1k.

 

[trickg]

Don’t bother loading 9mm

Bullets are $80 per 1k
Primers are $70 per 1k
Powder is about $25 per 1k
So $175 per 1k assuming brass is free

You can buy decent 9mm for about $250 per 1k and not have to deal with a thing.

Or, one could look at it from the perspective that you save $75 for every 1000 rounds loaded. And that's only 9mm - that doesn't speak at all to cost savings for other things, which brings me to....

What I was thinking the same, unless we go through another shortage the prices look ok right now. What about 45?

Your cost savings are significantly improved with other calibers. Have you priced 44 mag ammo recently? Even cheap Winchester White Box is selling for $60/box. When I first started reloading, with the cost of components (admittedly I was buying the cheapest cast lead bullets I could find) I was reloading 44 mag for about $6/box for ammo that at the time was running around $40/box.

In any case, it allowed me to shoot my 44 mag a lot without having to worry too much about how much it was costing me.

 

[MDRifles]

Ok I’m going to go through y’all replies and read some post about different options. What’s have me hung up right now is the rifle reloads, specifically 223/556. I’m going to do a lot more long range practice shooting around and overall shooting with that platform then the 308 follows. On a scale 1-10 how much more of hassle is it to reload those calibers then handgun rounds

 

[BradMacc82]

As someone who started with 223/5.56 on a entry level 3 station progressive -

You can learn on a progressive, just run 1 station at a time until you’re confident. A single stage does make learning easier.

If your doing 233/5.56 for bulk rounds, it’s arguable about whether it’s worth the time.

Brass prep is going to eat a fair amount of time, no way around that.

If you’re doing it for more of a consistent/precision load - by all means.

 

[BradMacc82]

Scale of 1 to 10 vs a straight wall pistol round?

For a newer reloader, from a 4 to 7, all depends on how well you pick it up, what mistakes you make and learn from. IMO.

 

[trickg]

Ok I’m going to go through y’all replies and read some post about different options. What’s have me hung up right now is the rifle reloads, specifically 223/556. I’m going to do a lot more long range practice shooting around and overall shooting with that platform then the 308 follows. On a scale 1-10 how much more of hassle is it to reload those calibers then handgun rounds?

Scale of 1 to 10 vs a straight wall pistol round?

For a newer reloader, from a 4 to 7, all depends on how well you pick it up, what mistakes you make and learn from. IMO.

It's a slightly different process, but not terribly. The main thing is that it requires a case trimmer.

To give you an example, this is how I load pistol and rifle:

Pistol:

1. Tumble brass, get them shiny.
2. Station 1 of Dillon 550 - Size/decap/prime
3. Station 2 of Dillon 550 - drop power, flare case mouth
4. Station 3 of Dillon 550 - seat bullet
5 Station 4 of Dillon 550 - crimp bullet

(note - steps are the same on a single stage press with the exception that priming and powder charging can be done off the press, although some people don't - it's possible to prime on the press, and some people have a powder measure set up on a single stage press.)

Rifle: (specifically 223)
1. Tumble brass, get them clean.
2. lubricate, (I use Dillon lanolin case lube) then Station 1 of 550 - Size/decap
3. Trim - I use a Lyman Universal case trimmer with power-pack combo. I don't think I ordered that, but it's what I have and I can use a cordless drill to power the trimming head, which makes it faster)
4. De-burr - I mentioned somewhere above that chuck my deburring tools into a corded drill and mount that in a vise locked in the "on" position - it goes faster that way. At some point I'll buy a case prep station.
5. Cut out primer pockets - I do this with the inner chamfer deburring tool in the drill

That's all part of the brass prep - once I've trimmed the brass, it really won't need to be trimmed again - it won't stretch enough to warrant it and it will wear out before it needs to be trimmed again. That eliminates steps 2-5 if I know that I've already prepped the brass. If I have, then it's just like loading for pistol - I

Once brass prep is done, I move to the Dillon and run it as a progressive:
6. Station 1 of 550 - lubricate/size (although it has already been sized) and prime
7. Station 2 of 550 - powder charge
8. Station 3 of 550 - seat bullet - on most rifle loading, this is the end of the process.
9. Station 4 of 550 - crimp with Lee Factory Crimp die, very lightly for AR.

People will argue that step 9 is unnecessary, and for any other ammo I'd agree, but most of my 223 loading is to feed my ARs. It could also be argued that I don't need to do step 6, and that argument would be valid, but since I'm doing it on my Dillon 550, I don't see any harm in running the brass up into the sizing die a second time.

It's all pretty straightforward.

 

[BradMacc82]

Going from 223/5.56 to .45acp, is what set the hook for me.

I learned a lot online, but went at it alone - and it kicked my ass at times with bottleneck rifle - but something like 45acp, my biggest concern was making sure I didn’t double charge (as the charge doesn’t eat up much case volume in 45acp).